Drop off rate with ICSI

[swirls3468]

Can anyone shed some light on my situation ? I suppose I'm writing on here because I over think everything and this makes me feel better.
I had EC yesterday and got 17 eggs. They performed ICSI and I got the call today that 7 had fertilised. I know 7 is still a good chance but just seems a massive drop off and I can't understand why. I thought ICSi had a higher fertilisation rate.
They did say 2 eggs were immature so only 15 were injected with sperm. But that's still 8 that didn't fertilise. I have PCOS and partner has MFI. I am 25 partner 34.
Is it just bad luck? Egg/sperm issue?
I'm worried now about these 7 growing to blasts. I will have to wait till Monday to find out which will be transfer day (hopefully).

Hi @swirls3468 - my wife and I didn’t have ICSI but I wanted to share that she had 29 eggs collected, and of those “only” 6 fertilised. There were some immature ones in there but also quite a few mature ones that didn’t fertilise. They couldn’t give us any reason why. Of the 6 that did, five made it to blastocysts. We had to freeze them all as she was at risk of OHSS. But she is currently 27 weeks pregnant with the first FET from the batch.

I know it’s really hard, but try not to worry too much. There could be different reasons more didn’t fertilise. And the 7 you do have may be very strong and give you everything you need.

Wishing you lots of luck x

@Shamoo

Hi *@swirls3468* - my wife and I didn’t have ICSI but I wanted to share that she had 29 eggs collected, and of those “only” 6 fertilised. There were some immature ones in there but also quite a few mature ones that didn’t fertilise. They couldn’t give us any reason why. Of the 6 that did, five made it to blastocysts. We had to freeze them all as she was at risk of OHSS. But she is currently 27 weeks pregnant with the first FET from the batch.

I know it’s really hard, but try not to worry too much. There could be different reasons more didn’t fertilise. And the 7 you do have may be very strong and give you everything you need.

Wishing you lots of luck x

Thank you so much for sharing your story! Good to hear something positive and congratulations on the pregnancy. You are right, They could make some good embryos so I guess we aren't out yet. I think the waiting is the hardest part.

I had 2 rounds of short protocol IVF with ICSI with similarly poor fertilisation rates. Like you I was very surprised and disappointed as I was told/everything I read said ICSI had great fertilisation rates - that's why clinics did it. In my case over 2 cycles I got 28 eggs and less than 30% fertilised

I changed protocol to natural modified IVF with ICSI and although for much fewer eggs (over 2 cycles I got 9 eggs) 100% fertilised and this gave me my twins

Some clinics these days will only recommend ICSI if ‘Total number of motile sperm’ is less than 1 million (down from 5 million previously).

Unfortunately you can not see 'DNA fragmented' sperm under the microscope so with 'male factor infertility' it's always going to be hit and miss.

In saying that, the unofficial reason for failed fertilization is most likely related to both the stimulation protocol (unnatural) and selection of sperm.

Fingers crossed you got 7 good ones.

@Iszzy

Some clinics these days will only recommend ICSI if ‘Total number of motile sperm’ is less than 1 million (down from 5 million previously).

Unfortunately you can not see 'DNA fragmented' sperm under the microscope so with 'male factor infertility' it's always going to be hit and miss.

In saying that, the unofficial reason for failed fertilization is most likely related to both the stimulation protocol (unnatural) and selection of sperm.

Fingers crossed you got 7 good ones.

So the ones with the DNA problem would they be the ones that have no fertilised ? Thanks for your insight x

Hi I had 12 mature eggs, 6 fertilised and 2 made it to day 5. One was used as a fresh cycle and currently 28 weeks. The other is frozen. Good luck!!

I'm sorry you're sad about the drop off - that's understandable. But it is normal - especially with PCOS; pcos affects egg quality because of the hormone imbalance, and also because so many eggs are stimulated. It's almost 'quantity over quality' with us pcos sufferers, when really all we want is 1 super good quality egg! It can be down to chromosomal abnormalities (which is also normal), and these eggs would never have made it. Hopefully you get a good quality embryo+ - let us know how you get on x

Also remember - it only takes 1!!

@Mrsmch123

Hi I had 12 mature eggs, 6 fertilised and 2 made it to day 5. One was used as a fresh cycle and currently 28 weeks. The other is frozen. Good luck!!

This gives me so much hope! And congratulations! X

@MotherOfShihTzus

I'm sorry you're sad about the drop off - that's understandable. But it is normal - especially with PCOS; pcos affects egg quality because of the hormone imbalance, and also because so many eggs are stimulated. It's almost 'quantity over quality' with us pcos sufferers, when really all we want is 1 super good quality egg! It can be down to chromosomal abnormalities (which is also normal), and these eggs would never have made it. Hopefully you get a good quality embryo+ - let us know how you get on x

Yeah maybe but can't imagine my eggs are too bad I'm only 25. Who knows! What will be will be. Monday can't come quick enough!! I'll post an update Monday

@swirls3468

Yes, sperm with fragmented DNA are much less likely to be capable of fertilizing.

(The egg has some ability to repair mild DNA damage, but not damage beyond a certain point)

I'm guessing Letrozole / Clomid with IUI didn't work for you two since your onto ICSI?

[quote Iszzy]@swirls3468

Yes, sperm with fragmented DNA are much less likely to be capable of fertilizing.

(The egg has some ability to repair mild DNA damage, but not damage beyond a certain point)

I'm guessing Letrozole / Clomid with IUI didn't work for you two since your onto ICSI?[/quote]
I tried letrozole and I ovulated but didn't get pregnant. Partners sperm count is only 1 million and poor motility as well so I guess we didn't have much of a chance that way anyway.

A friend and I both did ICSI - I had 12 eggs injected and she had 3. We both ended up with 2 embryos at the end of 5 days! Both of us got pregnant with baby number one and have one in the freezer. Just goes to show it is such a random numbers games, and that more eggs doesn't necessarily mean more embryos. All the best with your treatment x

@mayihavesomecakeplease

A friend and I both did ICSI - I had 12 eggs injected and she had 3. We both ended up with 2 embryos at the end of 5 days! Both of us got pregnant with baby number one and have one in the freezer. Just goes to show it is such a random numbers games, and that more eggs doesn't necessarily mean more embryos. All the best with your treatment x

Crazy how it works out isn't it. It only takes one good one I suppose. I'm booked in for transfer on Monday anyway so here's to hoping we get some good ones 😍

@swirls3468

Can anyone shed some light on my situation ? I suppose I'm writing on here because I over think everything and this makes me feel better. I had EC yesterday and got 17 eggs. They performed ICSI and I got the call today that 7 had fertilised. I know 7 is still a good chance but just seems a massive drop off and I can't understand why. I thought ICSi had a higher fertilisation rate. They did say 2 eggs were immature so only 15 were injected with sperm. But that's still 8 that didn't fertilise. I have PCOS and partner has MFI. I am 25 partner 34. Is it just bad luck? Egg/sperm issue? I'm worried now about these 7 growing to blasts. I will have to wait till Monday to find out which will be transfer day (hopefully).

I am in nearly same situation, Egg collection on Wednesday - 19 eggs collected, 18 injected. Only 6 fertilized . I am so upset as they were expecting 60-70 % fertilization rate. I am booked for transfer on Monday , hope will have something to transfer. How do you feel after collection? I am so bloated and in pain when walking around.

@KruT sounds similar to me! It is horrible to lose so many but I think of it differently now and think I've got 7 and only takes one good one. I am thinking the same as you though and praying there is still something there Monday. I think there will be. We've got to hope! Good luck let me know how you get on.
I felt pretty rubbish after egg collection but pretty much back to normal now. I had bloods today as I'm at risk of ohss but they all look good so can have a fresh transfer.
Have you got PCOS? OR MFI?

@swirls3468 Thanks! Good luck to you!

I don't have PCOS . We went for ICSI because of male infertility.
I had lots of blood tests, Hycosy and scans even though I have 2 normally conceived children from previous partner . What surprised me - why the clinic didn't perform more test for hubby , he had 2 semen analysis with bad results. No DNA fragmentation test , no treatment....

@KruT

Officially there is no 'medication' for most cases of poor sperm results, but yes it would have been nice for them to discuss all the possible causes and see if there was anything relevant.

DNA fragmentation test is more when sperm results are good and no female infertility factors are found, just to rule in or out the OH sperm from the final infertility diagnosis.

[quote KruT]@swirls3468 Thanks! Good luck to you!

I don't have PCOS . We went for ICSI because of male infertility.
I had lots of blood tests, Hycosy and scans even though I have 2 normally conceived children from previous partner . What surprised me - why the clinic didn't perform more test for hubby , he had 2 semen analysis with bad results. No DNA fragmentation test , no treatment....[/quote]
Really ?
See we had a choice. To continue with treatment straight away or wait a bit longer to find out the reason for my partner. We decided to do the treatment but in the meantime they'd generate a referral to the urologist. They've already done loads of bloods on him and genetics and he's got an appointment in May. Everything come back normal! Are you with the nhs? This is nhs round for us. Although we do only get one. Because I would like more kids in the future and wanted to find out WHY the problems were there so we can fix them.

@KruT we have make factor infertility and we were recommend proxeed from the hospital to take. It a power that you mix with water now my partner wasn't happy about taking this as it £40 for 4 weeks worth twice a day you take it . His second spream test before our IVF was 9 million count and 2 % morphology we were told we had to do icsi. Covid hit we were delayed so he kept taking it . Morning of egg transfer his sprem went up they were really impressed and he was just under the mark to not do icsi he was 17million count and 10% morphology so would defo recommend proxeed if you can afford it . After hearing that result he takes it no problem since xxx

Good luck for tomorrow @swirls3468 🤞

@Hoping1 hi, can I ask how long he was on it to see that improvement?

Hi all, not posted much on here before but losing my mind! Had our first round of ivf, got 3 embryos. First one took but I miscarried. Second and third didn't work. Just found out on Friday about third. I'm was on pessaries for transfer and have my doctors appointment on the 6th May. If I stop the pessaries I will come on my period but then don't think I would make this it into this cycle to start the next full injections for egg collection etc and would have to wait a month till the next period. I don't even know if the doctor will make me wait anyway and then I've added time by carrying on with the pessaries. As I'm Nhs I know they are bit weird with timing from day 1 to making it into that cycle. Has anyone had their second cycle and been told they had to wait or could they just go straight from their last period after the transfer? Would really appreciate some help, driving myself a bit mad!

@thislittlebird hi , he still on it for next cycle and gettting them results he went on it in the march and covid hit so he was on right tho till our first cycle in October xxx

@swirls3468 wishing you lots of luck on your journey! I had 2 rounds of ICSI first round 11 eggs, 9 fertilised, 3 made to blastocyst and only 1 to transfer. Sadly that round failed but my second round I had 10 eggs, all 10 fertilised, 4 blasts, 1 transferred and 2 viable for storage. I have a 1 year old from that transfer and just waiting for FET cycle. From the first cycle they decided to up my meds second time round as they couldn't understand what really happened with the drop offs. But just wanted to reassure you (as painful as it is, I know) it really does just take that one little fighter. I hope that brings a little bit of comfort, I was told by my clinic to focus on the quality rather than the quantity and I took great comfort from that ♥️

@Charl32 I'm so sorry to hear you've been having a tough time, I was in the same position as you from first round not working still on pessaries and waiting for cycle to start. My period started a couple of days after consultation and whilst I was eager to go again (so was the clinic) they did want me to wait 3 cycles. I didn't want to do this so pushed with them and they were happy for me to have that period, start norethisterone for timing of next cycle and go on that one. May cycle failed and started back up in July - hope that helps x