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Original poster

Is it not generally known that the first verse of the German national anthem is banned?

54 replies

MmeLindt · 01/12/2009 11:39

Or is Pete Doherty really such an idiot?

Guardian article here actually fails to mention that the first verse is not just controversial, it is illegal to sing it in Germany.

OP posts:
SerenityNowAKABleh · 01/12/2009 11:42

I'm going for "he is such an idiot".

SqueezyIsBackToBlack · 01/12/2009 11:44

Pete Doherty is a very clever individual in terms of intelligence so he should know better.

I do think he likes to court controversy though. He'd do better to court a good hot bath IMO.

Original poster
MmeLindt · 01/12/2009 11:47

It is actually a given, that he is an idiot. Generally.

But in this instance? I am not sure, as I lived in Germany so have always known that the first verse is a no no.

OP posts:
IvanaDK · 01/12/2009 11:47

PD is just a sad drug addict, I really can't stand him, he's far too old for this kind of teenage stupidity.

I wasn't actually aware that the first verse of the German national anthem was banned, but I can see why!

PuppyMonkey · 01/12/2009 11:50

I didn't know.

Dumbledoresgirl · 01/12/2009 11:50

I didn't realise Deutschland uber alles was only the first verse of the anthem. I thought it was a completely different set of words to the same tune. So I sort of didn't know, but had I seen the words, I would have known they weren't the right ones iyswim.

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 01/12/2009 11:58

I didn't know that it was illegal and I hope I'm not an idiot (no comments please ). I did know it was no longer sung. But the German national anthem is quite commonly referred to in the UK as "Deutschland über alles" so I think it would be quite easy for someone not to know that it was at all controversial.

Pete Doherty issuch an idiot, though, regardless of anthem-related general knowledge.

gorionine · 01/12/2009 12:02

I do not know Pete Doherty so he might be really stupid but I have to confess I did not know that the first verse of the German Anthem was banned.

Original poster
MmeLindt · 01/12/2009 12:14

The anthem starts with "Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit.." now.

The first verse is banned because of the use of "uber alles" which was used by the nazis to demonstrate their dominations, and because the song refers to the traditional ethnographic boundaries

"from the Mass to the Memel, from the Etsch to the Belt..."

The river Mass is now in Belgium, the Memel is in the Kalingrad area, the River Etsch is on the Austrian-Italian border and the Belt is in Denmark.

It is absolutely taboo to sing the first verse. No wonder he was booed for it.

OP posts:
ErnestTheBavarian · 01/12/2009 12:23

Hate to be picky, but while it is taboo and generally frowned upon and deemed to be offensive, as happened with PD, it is not illegal. It has not been banned or made illegal, but merely dropped, the 3rd verse only being officially recognised as the national anthem. He clearly knew it was controversial too. He obv. did it with no other intention than to be controversial and offensive.

D. über alles is the 1st verse. The modern national anthem is the 3rd verse.

The Nazi's fav. tune was the Horst Wessel Song, and this is illegal. (Just been doing this with ds1 in school!), plus reading all about it in the local rag, so I know me onions :

PD really is a sad waste of space tho. He was doing fascist salutes in Spain too. Just go away horrid little man-child.

Original poster
MmeLindt · 01/12/2009 12:28

Ernest
Really? DH told me it was illegal. Or maybe I just was not listening properly

OP posts:
TinyPawz · 01/12/2009 12:32

Random question:

Original poster
MmeLindt · 01/12/2009 12:38

As far as I know, the reinstated it as the national anthem after the reunification in 1991, the words do go well for that.

Unity and right and freedom
For the German Fatherland;
Let us all strive to this goal
Brotherly, with heart and hand.
Unity and rights and freedom
Are the pledge of fortune grand.
Prosper in this fortune's glory,
Prosper German fatherland.

I did read (when looking for a translation of the anthem) that there have been calls to adopt a new anthem but I don't suppose there are many anthem writers around these days.

OP posts:
trefusis · 01/12/2009 12:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ErnestTheBavarian · 01/12/2009 12:42

Well, it's been the national anthem since 1922, they just dropped the 1st 2 verses, the 1st one becasue of the spin the nazi's put on it, but it wasn't written with this meaning in mind.

in the 20C, germany was not 1 unified country, but lots of little principalities etc, so the song was written to stir up natianl feelings and a desire to be united as 1 country, and to encourage people to put the unity as a prioirty, not saying that Germany was better than every other country iyswim, tired 6 not explaining well.

But basically, after the war, the anthen was kept but the 3rd verse adopted and kept as the official anthem.

ErnestTheBavarian · 01/12/2009 12:47

the man-child didn't drunkenly stagger on stage and sing a controversial song in total innocence. Come off it. Just as much as he didn't go on stage in Spain doing fascist salutes as a friendly innocent gesture either.

It is widely known to be totally offensive. At the world cup etc it is NEVER sung. Widely known to be offensive and not done. Anyone honestly beleive it was an innocent mistake ANd angry booing didn't give him any clue he was being out of order.doubel

Twat.

SoupDragon · 01/12/2009 12:48

I had no idea.

SoupDragon · 01/12/2009 12:51

"It is widely known to be totally offensive"

Is it?

I don't doubt PD did it deliberately though.

gorionine · 01/12/2009 12:55

ErnestTheBavarian, for someone like miself with very limited knowledge of German (I speak fluent "school German") it is impossible when you hear a football team singing their Anthem to know actually which verse they are singing and the meaning of it.

Now, IN the case of PD, if a similar "incident" happened in Spain, I agree with you that it is indeed fair to assume that it was done purposly to upset people.

SoupDragon · 01/12/2009 12:56

It has to have been deliberate because I bet he had to ask what the words were and I would imagine, should you google it, it is obvious what should and should not be used.

BonjourIvressedeNoel · 01/12/2009 12:57

He did it on purpose to get some controversy up before Christmas ( well I think anyway )

Original poster
MmeLindt · 01/12/2009 13:02

Ernest,
to anyone living in Germany then it is known (or should be) but that was why I started this thread. I don't know if it is widely known in UK.

As to the words of the national anthem, I have heard the Italian anthem loads of times (DH used to watch Formula1 when Schumacher drove for Ferrari) and have not got a clue what the words are. I know it goes "Doo doodle doooo doo dooodle dooo ..."

OP posts:
gorionine · 01/12/2009 13:22

I do not know the words for the Italian one either but I love the melody! One of my favourite with the American one (to which I do not know the words either)

MmeLindt, I only know the first verse of my own country's Anthem. I am going to Google them know and learn them by heart for the next trip there as I feel it might come handy.

Gosh , just googled it, 4 verses! I better get to work on them now!

Lio · 01/12/2009 13:25

I didn't know.

ErnestTheBavarian · 01/12/2009 14:03

I know when the footie chants are going you can't generally make out the words, but Deautschland Deutschland über alles kinda stands out a bit, doncha think?

I have been aware it's a no no for years, long before I came to Germany, but then I have studied history quite a bit.

The fact that many brits aren't aware of it isn't really the point. The point is, and I guess it's pure specualtion, is whether PD knew. And like I said, I can't believe he innocently drunkenly staggered on stage to sing a patriotic soothing number to his German fans. He staggered on and sang a song he probably thought was illigal or at the very least very offensive. And he did it apparently 4 times to
loud angry boos before he had to be removed from the stage.