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Original poster

Do you think that the cctv footage of the last moments of Ben Kinsella's life needed to be shown?

30 replies

welshone51 · 12/06/2009 17:31

I cant even bear to put a link on here about it. It is truly heart breaking and it has really upset me ( I am not easily upset )

I personally think that the cctv footage shown all over the news of the last few moments of a fatally wounded child's life is too much and shouldnt be shown.

I appreciate that his name needs to live on and the footage may make people stop and think but its extremely upsetting.

R.I.P Ben x x x

OP posts:
Mintyyflavourcondom · 12/06/2009 17:34

No I do not. It serves no purpose. I assume his parents have given their permission.

Has it been shown today, pre-watershed?

daftpunk · 12/06/2009 17:35

no..it should not have been shown...

hope his killers rot in hell

HeadFairy · 12/06/2009 17:38

As someone who works in news I never think we should shy away from showing it, as upsetting as it may be. I think it does have a value, it won't have been shown without the families consent. The family have been at the forefront of anti knife campaigns and I think they'd agree that anything that might stop it happening to another child will help.

It wasn't graphic but do appreciate that some people get upset at these things, it's sometimes easy to become quite hardened working in news, but I think that on bulletins during the day and early evening there should be a warning perhaps saying there is some footage viewers might find distressing.

Original poster
welshone51 · 12/06/2009 17:39

I am not sure whether it has been shown pre-watershed but it was on the news last night and it has been all over the internet,
I personally felt uncomfortable yesterday just seeing his killers running from the crime scene but to see him staggering and bleeding after he has been stabbed is just to much in my opinion.

OP posts:
HeadFairy · 12/06/2009 17:40

The purpose it serves is to show how vulnerable he was, and how chaotic the scenes running up to his murder were. I think it emphasies just how feral the people who did that to him were.

I think sometimes its too easy to dismiss another gang related killing (I know he wasn't in a gang and was caught up in the crossfire as it were) but if footage like this is shown, people are more likely to stop and think "it could be my child" or even, as I would hope, a teenager might think "it could be me" and think twice about taking a knife out with them.

daftpunk · 12/06/2009 17:43

headfairy;

do you think showing scenes like this stop people?...i'm not so sure.

Original poster
welshone51 · 12/06/2009 17:45

I have a 16 year old brother who looked like Ben and this may be why it has gotten to me so much as I am usually a hard old cow. I just hope that his death wont be in vain.

OP posts:
HeadFairy · 12/06/2009 17:47

It might not stop the hardened people who carried out this attack, but it might stop someone who's carrying a knife for "protection" as they are statistically much more likely to get hurt in knife crime.

Looking back at the footage, do you think the impact of it might have been lessened if the reporter hadn't told you it was after he'd been stabbed, ie if you didn't know you were looking at his last moments? Without that information it just looks like a teenager walking through the streets, he's not covered in blood and staggering.

I don't mean to sound harsh, I'm really interested in perspectives from outside news as I said before I think we do become a bit hardened sometimes.

Original poster
welshone51 · 12/06/2009 17:53

Thanks for your information head fairy you make some valid points. However you can see that he is bleeding- on the sun website they have even circled it and there are points when his walking becomes staggered.

OP posts:
daftpunk · 12/06/2009 17:53

well...i saw it for the first time last night (.maybe night before)... i went so cold..he was just walking normally..you saw his friends running over to him, and then they walked around a corner..reporter said he died not long after...he was too painful to watch....i'm not sure the reporter could have said anything other than the facts?

i know awful things happen everyday..but most people arn't used to dealing with it.

monkeytrousers · 12/06/2009 18:19

No. there is no need for it. It's akin to showing pornography. They wouldn't dream of showing the photos of the child pornography ring - well, knowing the media, it would have been mooted many a time - but there are laws against it.

People are actually very good empathisers without stretching to showing such footage as gruesome entertainment.

monkeytrousers · 12/06/2009 18:20

It won't stop anyone. It actually only contributes to the killers infamy.

HeadFairy · 12/06/2009 18:24

I had a chat with a producer welshone and the sad fact is that often it's a commercial decision, ie we've got the footage so therefore we should use it. It's attention grabbing which gets viewers/readers, but if you are a family of a victim and are running a high profile anti knife crime campaign I suppose you don't care about the ins and outs, and would rather people just see the very real effects of knife crime.

It's a bit like the policy of taking children/young adults involved in knife crime to A&E units and hospitals to meet the victims of their crimes and see how horrific their injuries can be. Sometimes shocking people is the only tactic left. I do think some young people are totally detached from the effects of their violence. They know they can make someone bleed, but they have no idea of what the implications of that are. I truely believe that was the case in the murder of Damilola Taylor, the killers were so young and so innured to violence they had no idea that slashing someone's leg can kill them. No excuse for their crime, but I really believe these children need to really understand what they are doing, rather than just being the big man, which is what they think they are doing.

mrsmaidamess · 12/06/2009 18:31

As heartbreaking as it was to see, I think it only adds to the vitriol we (rightly)feel towards the murderers ,rather than convincing any potentional knife carriers to stop.

It really makes me think about how you only have to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, especially as a young man, for something awful to happen. Poor kid.

monkeytrousers · 12/06/2009 18:34

But if someone can stick a knife into a real life breathing person, watching an image of it on the yelly (something they see realistically recreated every day probably) is hardly going to give them any pang of quilt.

The media cannot beat entertainment at it's own game - and it shouldn't even try to. The most obscene thing I've eveb seen was the TV news showing Nick Berg in the moments before his death and then pixelling out his head as it was cut off. That was on the news pre-watershed. I don't want to see people staring into the face of death. I am mortal myself. I have an imagination. This is real life not 24.

I have also seen rape attacks literally dramatised. It is beyond anything Chris Morris dreamt of. It's utterly morally corrupt.

I wish the news just reported the news, minus spin and minus sensation.

I don't want to know the intimate details of murders - especially child murders. It's repulsive to push these things in peoples faces. Let the rubberneckers search for it on their own if they want.

mrsmaidamess · 12/06/2009 18:39

Nowadays the news IS image led. They will show footage of a helicopter crash for example, just because they happen to have it and it makes sensational viewing.

Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 12/06/2009 18:39

I found it quite difficult to watch - by coincidence my son was attacked by a gang with a knife on the same night - so I did have a 'there but for the grace of God' feeling.

I do agree with HeadFairy though. I truly think that some young people have no idea how much damage a knife can do. Hopefully it might make someone think twice about carrying a knife. The youth who took a knife to my son didn't own it - it was being carried by another lad in the gang.

HeadFairy · 12/06/2009 18:40

cor I don't know what news programmes you watch monkeytrousers, but I can guarantee the Beeb would never show anything like that. Even the staff here did not see the beheading videos we received (apart from a couple of senior journalists who had to watch it to confirm it was what it puported to be)

I disagree about the point you make about the murderers not feeling remorse when they see video footage of their actions, I think often these losers are totally hyped up, often on drugs or booze, or just the adrenaline, the fact Ben was stabbed 11 times in 5 seconds shows how frenzied the attack was. More like animals who've totally lost control. In the cold light of a prison cell it might give them the chance to reflect on what they've done. But more than that, it might make more impact on someone who's not yet committed a similar crime but is in danger of doing so, ie young lad, does a lot of posturing with his gang, carries a knife, brags about cutting someone etc etc. Hopefully if they ever got to see something like this they might think twice.

To be honest, I think something like this should be shown to teenagers in schools, particularly ones in areas blighted by gangs. Alongside the message that the murderers are losers, idiots and have no life now they are behind bars for the best part of 20 years, I think it has a big impact on teenagers.

ilovesprouts · 12/06/2009 19:01

i think its terrible to be shown ,but his parents may have okd it they should take a leaf out of the usa ,life means life were too soft over here ,british prisons are too soft ..3 nice meals a day tv etc its

captainpeacock · 12/06/2009 20:40

I watched this on the website and couldn't get it out of my mind. My ds 11 had been subjected to a similar (although not violent) respect ritual a couple of weeks ago. I watched the news later with my dd and turned it over as I didn't want her to see it and certainly didn't want to watch it again. I think the biggest deterent is the sentences that I was so, so glad to see these three given today.

Kimi · 12/06/2009 20:53

Heartbreaking waste of a decent life, hope the vermin that killed him rot in hell, oh how I wish we could hang scum like this

5inthebed · 12/06/2009 20:56

I watched it last night, and then they showed his parents coming out the courthouse, his mother was in tears. I found yself moved to tears on her behalf, even more so after seeing those sad images of his last minutes. Very sad and tragic.

captainpeacock · 12/06/2009 22:04

I'm so surprised that this thread hasn't attracted more posters. This affects all of us with boys, whatever age they happen to be at the moment.

19fran76 · 12/06/2009 22:16

No, I am not convinced by arguments in favour of it being shown. I agree with Monkeytrousers rather eloquent posts on the matter.

monkeytrousers · 12/06/2009 22:19

It was the BBC Headfairy.