Issues raised by the CG case 11

[Venusflytwat]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

@TinselTwins

I respect many of your posts but I think you are reaching somewhat on the CY statement.

I agree it says nothing medical - it's interpretation is very much fluid wrt the case.

Also, dignitas doesn't just cater for people whose condition is going to kill them soonish

It also caters for people whose condition won't kill them, but will leave them with a highly diminished quality of life, so having access to palliative care here doesn't apply to their circumstances.

Link to IPSOS upthread for anyone who wants to complain about inaccurate reporting :)

I agree it says nothing medical - it's interpretation is very much fluid wrt the case

But I think that's the point
It's cleverly written so that it can be interpreted to apply to whatever happens next, which meeans that it can just be re-released instead of C&C feeling that they need to keep making statements as things develop

The same statement would apply if CG has treatment
The same statment would still be applicable if CG doesn't have treatment
The statement would even still be applicable if CG passed away.

It's clever. It says it all in a vague way that applies to whatever qustions people might have for them

Just read statement....sure hes not in pain could mean that brain severely damaged or medication is relieving pain. We all know having something down your throat and lungs being forcibly inflated is going to be painful. More tests could mean a ray of hope for new treatment but I'm inclined to agree with mucky that these tests may not be relevant for decision which IMO was made today and as mucky said experts gone home now so decision is made, could just be 'tidying up' tests ready to present ALL facts to judge. Prolonged eeg seems significant but no mention of MRI.
So all in all an ambiguous statement fit for either conclusion but I am veering on the side of judgement being upheld. That phrase confident he is not in pain suggests catastrophic brain damage but I am absolutely not an expert. The statement said they tried their best which too is significant I think. I just wish this following week to be calm and peaceful for the family and wish them nothing but heartfelt sympathy for what has been a truly traumatic and horrendous time for all. ( sad face).

Somewhat amazingly CA haven't reacted to this statement at all. I think they don't appreciate the subtlety!

very surprised by that lapin

assuming they know somthing more detaild or laura isnt allowed to comment?

That wouldn't stop the rest of them.

It appears Laura's staying quiet.

Didn't read bottom bit of statement MRI scan done too

That wouldn't stop the rest of them

I think some of them have pretty short attention spans
If they're not being "fed" updates and pics they'll slink off and change their facebook profile to some other cause

The page is heavily moderated. They can't post about something without admin approval.

The Daily Mail link has been posted as a comment on someone else's post but people are mainly ignoring it and saying the usual "if he's fighting we're fighting" business

Interesting banner someone has made..except there is no proof it works...

Banner was on charliegard fight fb page on the 16th.

They're taking it to the court hearing protest as well...don't get it..

what does it say

Maybe CA have been told to keep quiet and give parents some space.

' the medicine works. Proof is there. Release Charlie Gard from your care'

Alongside his picture and pictures of the girl who think was meant to have had the same condition on a car or something

Except if the medicine did work there wouldn't be this whole court case in the first place! So doesn't really make sense. Like most the stuff on that site

ybe CA have been told to keep quiet and give parents some space.

They haven't but they were told to stop attacking GOSH which I think will have taken the wind out of the sails for some of the CA

Somewhat amazingly CA haven't reacted to this statement at all

It's not an anonymised forum like this is. Back channels require no additional set up, nor any particular effort for people to get in touch with each other off-piste. They also know they are being closely watched, screen spotted and commented on, by us, DS and a wodge of other forums.

So all things considered I think it likely they are reacting. Just not on one big public page.

This is one of those crunch moments of when a momentum of feeling has built up and bumps against its first Leader Silence. First splinterings into sub groups stands a good chance of happening around now.

Should be OK. Splintering is good. The sheep and the goats and the zebras find their tribes and discover they are not so alone in their unspoken thoughts about ".some of the other members". The noisier minority might find themselves with a lot more resistance when they all come together again once/if the post cycle hots back up.

Or they could be bucking the more typical trends and have just decided to sit on their hands for a bit, in quiet contemplation and reflection.

screen shotted, not spotted.

I thought the protests had stopped, I didn't know they were planning yet another outside court. Did I read that the Pastor is coming back? Perhaps he'll be there too.

Good post online especially last sentence (grin)

thats ridiculous no proof anything works on his strain