Metrojet accident over Sinai

[DoctorFunkenstein]

I don't think there is a thread?

I will be having various moments of silence today as I think about the people who so sadly lost their lives.

Russia has a day of mourning. I think it would be nice if we spared a thought.

and btw - no idea yet what happened, professional opinion seems to be leaning towards structural break up mid air, but we will have to wait and see. Other airlines are avoiding the area as a precaution until we know more.

Horrible incident.

BBC says it is Russia's worst air disaster, and accounts of the crash site are distressing.

Claims that it shot it down are being dismissed, and suspicion seems to be centring on technical faults. But until the investigation, no-one will really know (presumably why others are rerouting as a precaution).

Thank you, AuntieStella

There is a running thread on the PPRuNe obviously if anyone wants to follow that.

We flew out of Sharm a couple of hours before this flight. Can't stop thinking that those poor people will have been with us in the airport, maybe in the hotel.

Oh gosh Ken I am sorry, you must be very shocked.

This one is looking a bit more like a bomb now if you see what's going on. Flights from Sharm suspended, Irish authorities ban Irish airlines from flying to or from Sharm or over Sinai until further notice. I don't think that this would happen without specific intelligence, or a specific threat against a further flight. Quite worrying.

I did look at PPRUNE after DoctorFunkenstein recommended it, and explosion on board was always (to a lay reader like me) one of the stronger possibilities; so I wasn't surprised to see today's announcements that a bomb seems to be the working hypothesis.

And suspension of flights must mean either there is specific intelligence that leads them to think there will be further attempts. Or they just don't know how it happened, and so don't know whether the (presumed) security loophole that let the (presumed) bomb on to the plane is still open.

BBC news just announced now that all British flights to and from Sharm el Sheikh have been suspended and the Govt have said they have reason to believe the crash was caused by a Bomb.

There are tourists in Sharm airport stranded.

Article from BBC website

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34724604

US authorities seem to be going with the bomb theory too.

It's all very unsettling, I was in Sharm in 2014 and the atmosphere was very subdued with the Russian holiday makers because the Russians had shot down the Dutch plane over the Ukraine and weren't owning up to it or apologising .

The Malaysian flight from Holland shot down over Ukraine .

It's awful - those poor people and their families. I've been reluctant to fly for some time and the 2015 incidents are solidifying my resolve.

How awful. Although to be fair, I think if I was on holiday while my own government (allegedly) did something atrocious, I don't think I'd be owning up or going round apologizing either. I'd probably just keep my head down.

They say about 20,000 in Sharm. And then there's all those expecting to fly out.

Nothing flying there from UK today. No word on how long it'll take to be assured of security at the airport for flights to restart.

But a ruined holiday is nothing compared to a downed plane.

That's because the Egyptian president is flying out to Uk today from Sharm so security is tightened for him and only him.

Why are the Russians so angry about Brits decision re Sharm Airport?

Seems like the Russians are insulted that Brits have pre-empted Russian decision (declaring this must have been a bomb on board), and that Russians don't want to admit to their own public that their actions on Syria may have attracted ISL violence.

Excuse my ignorance but after the loss of so many Russian lives wont this make Putin more determined to get rid of IS? Or is this not the reason he is bombing Syria?

'Excuse my ignorance but after the loss of so many Russian lives wont this make Putin more determined to get rid of IS? '

Yes. Former Clinton official and a former US ambassador, John Bolton, was on Fox News last night and said that Putin is likely to take the gloves off and use much greater force against Isis.

'Russians don't want to admit to their own public that their actions on Syria may have attracted ISL violence'

This is what some factions want. They hope that Putin will become unpopular in Russia with the Russian public if Russians are killed. But they have got it wrong because Putin is more popular than ever in Russia and Putin is unlikely to back down because he feels that Isis etc are an existential threat to Russia because it is only a matter of time before they are turned against Russia by the factions that control them.

Putin's position in Russia has been built on his reputation as the strong leader of the world's strongest country.

Invincibility.

Hence the quick denial by the powers that be that ISIS were involved and talk of mechanical failure before any Russian experts had even made their way out to the wreckage site.

International confirmation of ISIS involvment now shows Russia is not invincible and Putin will be forced to retaliate very evry strongly.

Also, to add to Claig's point (actually, to reinforce it more strongly), Russia has been fighting Islamism for far longer than Western European nations realise, know or think about. This alone will maintain his popularity.

The tightened security isn't just for the Egyptian president, the UK flights are not running and the emergency return flights that are being laid on are being re-routed (less direct but potentially safer route)

So would it be considered a good or bad thing if Putin ups the anti against IS now and does he really have a chance of getting rid of them?

It's awful. More so because it appears to be deliberate. Not that a plane crash is ever anything other than a tragedy, obviously.

I have friends who would have been flying home from Sharm perhaps a few days before the crash.

'So would it be considered a good or bad thing if Putin ups the anti against IS now'

I think so because IS are a terrorist organisation that beheads people and spreads chaos and destruction. Putin can beat them. If he sends the Chechens in against them, they'll run so fast their feet won't touch the ground.

"Putin should unleash Chechen troops on Isis, says region's president

Former rebel Ramzan Kadyrov says if Russian PM sent his ‘death battalion’ to Syria in a ground operation, Islamic State would be wiped out within weeks"

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/02/putin-should-unleash-chechen-troops-on-isis-says-regions-president

As John Bolton said on Fox News last night, it might be very embarrassing how fast Putin deals with them if he decides to.

I am actually a bit surprised that in this day and age, we can not know what happened, IYSWIM. I was surprised with MH370 as well. We're expecting to fly to Oz in 4 hours in the next decade, but we can't tell how an airliner came down...I dunno, it just surprises me. To be clear, I'm not having a go at anyone, it's just interesting.