Madeleine McCann investigation

[lyndie]

I saw today that possible excavations are to start in the resort where MM went missing.

Does anyone think the progress The Met have made is astonishing given the length of time that has elapsed? I can't help but wonder what progress could have been made if they had been involved at the start.

I really hope that somehow they can find out what happened and give her family some sort of closure. I know the ins and outs of what happened and her parents leaving her have been discussed at length on MN but from a crime point of view I would be very interested to see if the Portugese police had done enough or not.

The last MM threads started were ridiculous, full of conspiracies, rubbish about time lines and the women staying above the mccanns. Even when people pointed out that hotel managment, other guests and friends all agreed what time they raised the alarm to staff posters were having non of it.

Unfortunately it always goes the same way, I hope yhey find her so they can have some kond of closure.

Oh and who can blame any of thrm for not going back to re enact ot all, when it looked very much like the police had already made up their minds what happened

I'm sorry lyndie I'm not going to answer that here but I think in general reconstructions are extremely useful to police forces to establish exactly where witnesses were and when, and what they could or could not have done/seen/heard - it is possible to get confused in an initial panic situation, but a reconstruction can clarify things

Do you not think that they would have done anything that they thought was useful?

Fair enough Costa, I have seen MM threads before but they were more about the McCanns leaving them more than anything else. I did do a search before starting this thread but there was nothing recent.

Obviously the main thing is to find out what happened and then people can try to understand it more, whatever happened and reflect and learn any lessons from the investigation.

If you mean the McCanns' friends - all I know is that they refused to return for the reconstruction

Yes lyndie hopefully there will be some resolution at some point

If anyone wants to pm any questions - that's fine, I'll answer to the best of my knowledge and keep it off the board

Any abuse will be ignored and/or reported so there's really no point

Oh for God's sake.

The McCanns repeatedly asked for a reconstruction while they were out there and the Portuguese police repeatedly refused. Later, after all the leaks from the Police to the Portuguese media, after KM had been made a suspect, after further off the record briefings speculating about another member of the party, they asked if everyone would return to Spain for a reconstruction. They smelt a giant rat and said no.

Spain?

The McCanns wanted a very different type of reconstruction - at the point when the investigation felt it necessary to carry out a proper police reconstruction, their friends refused. The McCanns as arguidos by that point, would not have had a choice in whether to attend, so we're unable to refuse

Were not we're!

How is a reconstruction 'smelling a rat'? The police couldn't force you to say you were somewhere you weren't, at a different time, wearing different clothes. You re-enact your own movements, and any discrepancies in the original statements can be sorted out - why would it not be helpful, or what would there be to be scared of?

They should never have been made arguidos in the first place.

Really? Thank you for that very useful contribution

No one who abducted a child would return to the scene and bury it especially when the resort was over run with police and media. There was a tiny window of opportunity for abduction and to leave the apartment and bury the child all within about an hour is unlikely. If you read the original reports they brought in dogs before from the UK and they did alert but the mccanns said they were unreliable and the policeman who wanted to dig that grassland was sacked. All of this up is documented in the Kate McCann book. She absolutely ruled out madeleines wandering out on her own as the window was open her toy was on a high shelf and it had been in the bed and the patio doors were too heavy to open.

No abductor would return to a resort teeming with media and police to bury a child they had abducted. The Portuguese did use dogs originally and wanted to dig that grassland but the mccanns said the dogs were unreliable . I read Kate's book and she 100% ruled out that Madeleine could have wandered as the window and shutters were up and her toy was placed on a high shelf and it had been in the bed as normal when they went out. This is the most significant development though in years so hopeful it may give some answers

There was no high shelf in the bedroom

I know

Ok, in your post it sounded as though you believed there was, sorry

No I am just recounting what it says in the book. I think it was implied whoever took her put the toy up high and Madeleine could never have done that. Plus the shutter up etc I have read the files and Kate's book and know someone who worked on this case originally so have always followed it.

anyone who is interested in this case should read the police files that are freely available online - read the actual witness statements and details of the huge amount of investigative work carried out by the PJ. Do that, and then make up your own mind - don't rely on the British media to tell you anything.

The files have all the interviews in detail and are v interesting. It shows the depth of the work done there and the reasons it stalled as it did. I feel for the Portuguese and how they were ridiculed The first police to suggest dogs and anything other than abduction were from the UK

When were the English police brought in with dogs, then Noddyholder?

About 2 months into the investigation UK dogs were brought over and they did alert in several places. The handler Martin grimes is world renowned afaik

the British dogs were brought in with their British handler Martin Grime at the suggestion of British Police National Search Adviser Mark Harrison MBE and closely followed a report written by British criminal profiler Lee Rainbow.

Mark Harrison's analysis can be read here

www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm