Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
News

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Hilary Mantel makes a good point

544 replies

juneau · 19/02/2013 08:15

She shouldn't have said it, since it's bitchy and uncalled for (and I actually find HM rather odd, if I'm honest), but after a good couple of years in the media spotlight I struggle to think of one thing the Duchess of Cambridge thinks or believes in. She never gives an opinion, she barely speaks, she just looks pretty and smiles.

OP posts:
TunipTheVegedude · 19/02/2013 21:53

Millyad - to simplify a bit - she is not talking about Kate Middleton the person. She's talking about "Kate Middleton" the media representation of a person.
In the same way, she talks about not Kate herself but the painting of Kate having dead eyes.
She's not attacking Kate for what she is. She's attacking our culture for what we want her to be.

LineRunner · 19/02/2013 21:57

'You lot'?

You are talking into a mirror. To your imaginary fan club bobbing around your head.

We get a lot of it on here, we lot.

Pan · 19/02/2013 21:58

yes *tunip, exactly. She isn't an icon for women, just a monarchial icon, which is open to observation.

Millyad · 19/02/2013 22:08

Simplified for me, your so kind....

Simply saying 'no risk of an emergence of character' and ' disjointed doll on which clothes are hung with no personality of her own'

Simply venomous, booker prize or not....

TunipTheVegedude · 19/02/2013 22:12

My so kind what?

Pan · 19/02/2013 22:13

Well, yes, Millyad, not 'venomous'..just well..factual. But you seem committed to her cause, so good luck with it.

Millyad · 19/02/2013 22:33

Seems a hard slog PAN but hey!!

I just wish 'they'd' leave the girl alone or at least give her a chance....

Night night all!!

Lessthanaballpark · 19/02/2013 22:36

Isn't it possible that they're both ok. I mean HM might not be attacking KM personally just the plasticised persona of her that we as a culture create.

I mean poor KM is walking a tightrope. On the one hand she risks being accused of blandness, yet if she steps out of line and offers her opinion (or lassoes an onion) then she'll be lambasted for partiality.

It's no fun being married to a royal. The higher up on the pedastal the further to fall, and our media are like vultures, they'll be waiting for her.

Pan · 19/02/2013 22:39

who are 'they'd'? on this thread?
And she isn't a 'girl'. She's a fully grown up woman.

And she has had lots of 'chances', more than most women do.
g'night.

Millyad · 19/02/2013 22:46

Okay, gross generalisation, 'they'd' being HM, media, Aussie radio dj's..... (Light hearted banter btw)

And she is a young woman care to agree!?!

Good fun had, now got to go, feed time.....

(Ill get shot down for saying that no doubt!!)

plinkyplonks · 19/02/2013 22:57

Not going to be very popular here but I actually agree with Mantel. The Guardian article is pretty much spot on. Unfortunately DM readers - the ones that call KM a social climber, work shy clothes horse - are now leaving comments in their thousands defending KM. The DM, in my opinion, like to manipulate their readership to progress their own agenda. It's a shame people fall for these media tricks and manipulating people into thinking Mantel is some sort of bully against a poor, defenceless KM. All this at a time when there was significant criticism of KM cancelling charity event talks when she had morning sickness before she found time to go on holiday with her family. A win/win for the DM and their advertisers as they are now getting thousands more hits, getting lots of publicity and generating lots of positive comments towards the royals.

squoosh · 19/02/2013 23:22

I think a majority of people on this thread seem to agree with HM.

LineRunner · 19/02/2013 23:34

Your light 'hearted banter', Millyad, just isn't funny.

Pan · 19/02/2013 23:35

shot down for 'feed time'? Nope. It's just what we do as dads. No medals handed out.

seeker · 20/02/2013 00:21

Oh, bless. It's very exciting being a dad for the first time. He may not have ever said "As a father" before!

Go on, give him a medal. Just a little one.

garlicbreeze · 20/02/2013 00:27

Disclaimer: I'm responding mainly to keep this on my active list until I get time to read the umpteen pages I've missed PLUS the rest of Mantel's speech AND some more critiques ... but ... can't you lay off Pan for a bit? Having a penis doesn't make him an Aunt Sally (er, but I'm too tired to find gender-appropriate terms.)

A parent is a parent, or does your ideology conk out when it encounters a male parent?

I know you can fight your own battles, Pan, but ...

seeker · 20/02/2013 00:30

I hadn't seen Pan getting a hard time-have I missed something?

Pan · 20/02/2013 00:36

no, I've no idea what garlic is talking about. She may explain, but I'll read it tomorrow, possibly.

garlicbreeze · 20/02/2013 01:42

Ignore me, I'm having a bad night Blush

expatinscotland · 20/02/2013 02:44

You're having a bad night? I must be having a bad fucking year. Again. 245 posts about a woman with a porcelein smile, getting out of kilter about people taking her photo of her on a beach in some resort or slagging her off in a newspaper while people starve and her country goes to the fucking dogs, the whole Western world thinks they are a joke? Seriously, WTAF?

Oh, so vile and disgusting.

Get a fucking grip! This is what you think is vile?

Some of the comments on here, and the Sinaed O'Connor thread, no wonder.

Gimme a break! This is a big deal?

expatinscotland · 20/02/2013 02:53

Too right, MI, as usual. :)

YorkshireTeaDrinker · 20/02/2013 04:11

Excellent article about the whole media storm here www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/19/hilary-mantel-duchess-cambridge-scandal

Interesting article by Mantel, Her point proved over and over again by the resultant hysteria. Agree with previous posters regarding the stupidity of the Prime Minister for wading in with his ill-conceived 'defence' of the DofC.

Most subsequent public discourse, with one or two notable exceptions, appears to have missed the point.

TanteRose · 20/02/2013 07:15

brilliant article by Hilary Mantel

Quote
"We don?t cut off the heads of royal ladies these days, but we do sacrifice them, and we did memorably drive one to destruction a scant generation ago. History makes fools of us, makes puppets of us, often enough. But it doesn?t have to repeat itself. In the current case, much lies within our control. I?m not asking for censorship. I?m not asking for pious humbug and smarmy reverence. I?m asking us to back off and not be brutes"

I am appalled at the vitriol directed towards Mantel (all the fat/jealous comments Shock)

and Cameron getting all up in it?
bloody hell Confused

also, he said "Princess Kate" on the news Confused - is that what she is called these days (not in the UK so don't know)

TanteRose · 20/02/2013 07:16

yy Yorkshire that Hadley Freeman article was very good too

PetiteRaleuse · 20/02/2013 08:35

Cameron likes jumping on Daily Mail bandwagons. They've managed to find two colunists to continue the non debate today too. I feel very sorry for Mantel, though I have a feeling she cares little for what is being said.