Horrible local news story about circumcision

[BeingFluffy]

This is a harrowing and tragic story - please DON'T click on the link if you are easily upset but it made me so angry that I wanted to let others know that this "custom" can kill. Unless for medical reasons, I think circumcision should be fucking outlawed. I can barely believe that in a western country with free medical care, babies can actually die as a result.

www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/queen_s_park_baby_bled_to_death_two_days_after_being_circumcised_1_1419367

My Ds was circumcised at 6mo, he had a very tight foreskin so would have had to have it done around 10/11yo but at the time he was in hospital (for 6months) for severe renal and urology problems. He had the operation done at the same time as another one and was on morphine for a week so didnt really feel any pain from it.

Sorry, I havent read the article but I think anybody who does this to their child for personal or religious beliefs is cruel and sick. There is no reason to mutilate your child!

Classmate of DS1's ended upmin ITU for severe haemorraghing after circumcision. Horrible thing to do

It is barbaric and af far as I am concerned abuse. Poor baby. Not really sure how the verdict can be 'accidental death' either.

He'd lost 3/4 of his total blood volume, that must have been quite a lot of blood! Think I might have got the advice of a doctor rather than a second-hand message from the rabbi.
I've never understood the logic of circumcision for religious reasons anyway. Surely if you believe God created Man, then why would you think "oh there's room for improvement, obviously God made a bit of an error there, I'll just fix that"?

I think that circumcism for non medical reasons should be outlawed. Although the practicalities of making non medical circumisim illegal would be hard. Prehaps a start would be jail rabbis or ihams or any other non medical person who carries out a circumcision.

I fear it would encourage jews and muslims to just go abroad to get their sons abused if it was illegal in the UK. It would need to be made an offense to take your son abroad for circumcision.However we have made female circumcision
illegal in the UK, inspite of similar arguements.I imagine it would put health visitors, doctors, nurseries in a tricky position when they see a victim's genitils.

I also think that parents whose sons have a medical circumcision would need to be protected from unfair child protection investigations. Certainly it should be made illegal for a circumism to be carried outside a hospital and with no pain relief.

I couldnt read it - I am assuming someone who was supposed to know what they are doing did the procedure?

Anyone I have known who has had it done, has been in hospital (babies and grown men). Even then, I have heard of complications - infections, pain.....

Awful & sad. What a waste, poor baby. I don't understand why anyone would cut bits off their precious perfect baby unless for medical reasons. Why put your baby through needless pain. Should be illegal like female genital mutilation.

This is making me have flash-backs to my son being in hospital following (medically necessary) surgery, screaming in my arms in the middle of the night and crying "my willy, my willy" over and over again. We had to get the paed registrar down to prescribe morphine. I too think it's utterly barbaric to do this to a baby, without painkillers, for religious reasons.

oh god that poor poor baby :(

i was reading the comments underneath and apparently routine circumcision is the leading cause of death in boys under 1mth in the usa?

and this quote

"An average of 117 babies die each year in the USA due to routine infant circumcision. It is probably a higher number and they write it off as something else. A baby only has to loose 1 ounce of blood to hemorrhage, and just 2.3 ounces to die as a result of this blood loss. Disposable diapers they use in the hospitals absorb the blood so quickly parents and the hospital staff usually don't even notice until it is too late." really shocked me, i had no i dea the risks were that high! i dont believe in circumcision excetp for medical reasons, we thought our ds1 was going to need to have it done but thankfully lots of massage/fiddling and the application of a steriod cream mean that his foreskin now retracts (he was age 11 when he got the cream it had never caused him any problems at all)

why do people do this to their babies? medical reasons, fine, and in a hospital with appropriate pain relief and after care, tho in the usa it seems babies still die even in hospital from this procedure, why would you do something that risked death for your baby if it is NOT medically necessary?!

There was a story in America about a woman who tried to circumcise her son by herself at home with a pair of pliers in front of her older son. Poor baby!

I dont know much a out it but I read in parts of Africa they are encouraging circumcision as it reduces the risk of HIV infection.

pixel: "Think I might have got the advice of a doctor rather than a second-hand message from the rabbi."

Yes, that was my thought too. So I feel a bit sceptical about the "accidental death" verdict, though apportioning blame is difficult. My feeling is the rabbi could have said "take the baby to a doctor if there are any problems" and if the mum had been a bit more with it she could have taken him to a doctor herself. But then I'd be a bit iffy about letting a non-medical person near my child with a knife in the first place.

i would have taken my baby to a dr as well, not that i would ever have had it done in the first place!

she could have called nhs direct? sorry i dont want to be mean towards the mother, its a truly awful thing but surely you would seek medical advice?

I'm sure I have misunderstood this, I fecking hope I have, but is that article saying that someone who was not a medical professional carried out the operation?!

Is that really legal?

All the more reason for it to be done by a qualified, experienced doctor in a medical setting. Sorry, couldn't read the article, too grim

All the more reason for it to be done by a qualified, experienced doctor in a medical setting. Sorry, couldn't read the article, too grim

So, this can be done in this country withoug medical training/qualifications?

Dear god, I wont even go to an untrained hairdresser, let alone some person attempting surgery.

www.rt.com/news/germany-religious-circumcision-ban-772/ Illegal now in Germany.

The district court of Cologne is a regional court, but as the process was already the revision of a lower court's decision and the prosecution did not allow an appeal, this is the final decision on this matter.

As the article says, someone might call the German constitutional court on this matter, but that will take ages.

Given this ruling, doctors might from now on face legal consequences if they perform a circumcision without medical necessity or approval of the boy. Also, and maybe even more importantly, insurances will probably stop covering claims for compensation arising from an unapproved circumcision.

sayonara girl:

I dont know much a out it but I read in parts of Africa they are encouraging circumcision as it reduces the risk of HIV infection.

The idea that circumcision reduces risk of HIV infection is based on a flawed study.

"I can barely believe that in a western country with free medical care, babies can actually die as a result."

Free medical care apart, I think that the US has a tradition of this procedure for their male babies at birth don't they? Done under medical conditions and with medical aftercare it sounds OK - but my ds hasn't had it done and we would only consider it now if he had a medical issue.

yay for the german court ruling.
about time!

How the fuck was this 'Accidental death'?

It's so awful :( barbaric unless medically required.

How tragic. And it's wrong that the inquest cleared the rabbi of any blame - he should have told the mother, via the friend, to take the baby to hospital. As someone who carries out a medical procedure, and who hadn't seen the baby's condition for himself, he was extremely irresponsible.