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Original poster

Outward facing carriers and push chairs are "child cruelty"

61 replies

pookamoo · 22/08/2011 12:45

Surely not so?

We had a pram and then a pushchair for DD which faced the pusher, and turned her round when she was about 2, and then she would usually tell us which way she wanted the pushchair...
But we got a sling when she was a colicy, sad 4 month old, and she howled when facing in, but was happy and content facing out!

Doesn't it depend on the child?

(ok, so I am listening to Jeremy Vine - so shoot me! Grin )

OP posts:
nocake · 22/08/2011 12:51

DD used to go in the sling facing in but only if it was time for a nap. As soon as she woke she'd be whinging to be turned round. Now, at 7 months, she has to face out all the time so she can see what's going on. I think she's just nosey Smile

usingapseudonym · 22/08/2011 13:36

When I started using a sling 2 and a half years ago all the advice on sling websites etc were to only use facing in. Apparently "froggy" position is much better for their spine development whereas facing out leaves them dangling on their crotch. Not to say them might not like it just that it isn't good for them.

I used a sling everyday for the first year and was reasonably well connected with others who did - don't think anyone thought it was a good idea to have them facing out!

Unfortunately babybjorns show them facing in and out and its often people who buy these rather than proper slings that do this :(

JosieRosie · 22/08/2011 13:39

Another Jeremy Vine 'fan' here pookamoo! Describing it as 'child cruelty' is the typical kind of hysteria you hear on his rubbish show. However, as an SLT, I have to say I would certainly recommend that parents use 'facing inwards' slings and buggies - it's a very useful way of helping the child to develop their joint attention and language skills.

nocake · 22/08/2011 13:40

We use a Beco Gemini that allows DD to sit in the "froggy" position while facing out. It's the reason we bought it.

Original poster
pookamoo · 22/08/2011 13:46

Our sling is a Kari-me, loads of different ways to hold the baby, and we found she was happier facing outward - it would have been far more cruel to have her facing in and screaming all the time!

And yes, JV show is "The Daily Mail in Audio Format"... I will place money on my D Grandad having cut out a Daily mail article on this very subject which will be winging its way to me as we speak as the arrival of DC2 is impending! Grin

But as I said, pram and pushchair both faced the person pushing, and after a while, DD was quite happy to snuggle inwards in the sling.

OP posts:
JosieRosie · 22/08/2011 14:23

And yes, JV show is "The Daily Mail in Audio Format"

Grin so true

I don't know what irritates me most - JV never ever being as neutral as he should be and sticking his oar into every debate instead of chairing it, or his rubbish and frankly embarassing mild flirtations with 'Sally Traffic'. I heard another MNer one time describe the JV show as 'enjoyable in a depressing sort of way' which I think is spot on. Wink Why do we do it to ourselves pookamoo???

LawrieMarlow · 22/08/2011 14:29

My children rarely went in slings at all - I tried but failed. They also went in forward facing pushchairs. They appear at 7 and 5 to be generally all right - they talk (a lot) and seem to be quite intelligent. Using forward facing transport is not "child cruelty".

WildHare · 22/08/2011 14:31

What is JV's argument against forward facing pushchairs???

fuckityfuckfuckfuck · 22/08/2011 14:33

This is trotted out every few years. I remember last time it happened my youngest was a few months old and was in a rear facing pram. I had people congratulating me on it Hmm My friend was pregnant with her second and had bought a very sensible Maclaren suitable from birth. It made her feel awful, and she also got comments about it. I bought a Maclaren anyway soon after. If rearfacers were cheaper and less bulky I'm sure a lot more people would consider them an option. And as for slings, it was only on my second dc that I realised BabyBjorns were shite. I had a stretchy wrap and then an Ergo. But the problem here is the Mothercare monoploy. If you can;t get it on the highstreet, chances are you won't even know it exists. Proper slings are something of a speciality it seems, and only available online. A shame really.

RitaMorgan · 22/08/2011 14:33

I don't think it's child cruelty.

I do think that forward facing buggies/strollers (and we do have one!) must be quite frightening and overwhelming for small children sometimes - especially in crowds, being pushed into traffic, big dogs coming past etc. I think parent-facing is nicer.

I've not seen a sling that looks supportive enough facing outwards so wouldn't use one for that reason. Plus ds has never faced forward unless on my back so it hasn't been an issue.

worldgonecrazy · 22/08/2011 14:34

DD was carried in a sling a lot when she was a baby. We had both the Baby Bjorn and a more traditional fabric sling. Once she realised that there was more to the world than just mummy's boobs (about 4 weeks) she much preferred being able to be forward facing. As a PP has said, Baby Bjorn slings are not good for the spine of very young babies if worn facing outwards, so we did limit her time in this.

Surely it's a case of each child being different? Some babies are quite gregarious by nature, and some aren't. A shy or insecure child might hate facing outwards, whereas those who are naturally curious or secure may prefer it?

azazello · 22/08/2011 14:38

We had a lie flat Maclaren with DD which faced outwards. She loved it. The previous batch of this research came out so I scurried round and borrowed a Bugaboo thing from a friend. DD wouldn't go to sleep if she faced me and I hated lugging the bloody thing around London. With the sling, she faced inwards until six months and outwards after that in the Kari Me. DS was just carried in the sling until 9 months so doesn't count.

She doesn't appear to consider that she was treated cruelly so, on my sample of 1, I say bollocks.

pozzled · 22/08/2011 14:42

Yet another thing to make parents feel guilty. We have a forward-facing pushchair. Never really thought about it before we had DD1, and I don't remember seeing any parent-facing pushchairs in our price range (i.e. bloody cheap!). I'd quite like to have a parent-facing one, but can't afford it.

We also have a Baby Bjorn, which apparently we shouldn't use. DD2 faces in at the moment as she's still young, but will face outwards when she's big enough. We do have a peanut shell sling as well, and I'm pretty sure you can use a forward-facing froggy position in this- I wonder if JV would consider that acceptable?

hocuspontas · 22/08/2011 14:43

I love the way that if you have a forward facing buggy you are somehow damaging your child's language skills. Like you lock them in a cupboard and never talk to them at any other time...

Forward facing means can you point things out to them and play observational games so if anything it is more interactive. So many things to see, even if only a 15 minute trip to the post office.

CappuccinoCarrie · 22/08/2011 14:46

I didn't even know about parent-facing buggies, we took the outward-facing one we were offered for free and were mighty thankful. I now have an intelligent, articulate, friendly, well adjusted 4.5yo so while it might have been 'nice' to have her facing me, no trauma, damage or abuse has occurred here.

bibbitybobbityhat · 22/08/2011 14:46

I think this argument is complete and utter bollocks. It actually makes me cross to hear it described as cruelty. There is far too much real cruelty towards children to dilute the message about the seriousness of it with this sort of nonsense.

Scaevola · 22/08/2011 14:47

Good grief!

Child cruelty is beating, broken bones, starvation, total lack of interaction.

This is a minor choice between perfectly adequate goods which have met British and EU safety standards.

wearenotinkansas · 22/08/2011 15:09

What's supposed to be wrong with Baby Bjorn??

RitaMorgan · 22/08/2011 15:23

The Baby Bjorn supports the baby's weight on their crotch, which isn't great for the spine (though there is a new model which has a different design I believe). Other styles of sling support the baby in a seated (or "froggy" position - their knees are level with or higher than their bottom like frogs legs).

Apart from that though I don't understand how anyone can manage a Baby Bjorn with a baby more than a few weeks old - all the weight is on your shoulders, I found them agony after an hour!

yok2t · 22/08/2011 15:35

Just in case anyone wants to know about the facing out issue with slings, here is a link to the Sling guide website:
www.slingguide.co.uk/frontcarries.php
Very informative.
Personally we used a Beco Butterfly 2 and now a Babyhawk Oh Snap and DD never had a problem about facing in. She looks out to the side and is very happy in it. I also use ringslings and hip carries which allows her to see forward more.

addressbook · 22/08/2011 17:12

I hate, hate these threads. I make myself read them and then feel guilty as hell

I used a Kari Me sling with dd a lot but once she was about 5-6 months she faced outwards in sling and pushchair. Tbh up to that point she had been snuggled into my chest a lot of the time. I don't ever remember her crying or feeling scared facing outwards. We don't have a lot of space, so the more bulky prams that have the rear face option were more tricky.

As for talking and language acquisition, I have always chatted to her a lot and we read books a lot. She is 2 now and her language is very good. She is still in a forward facing pushchair, although walks a lot more now. My memory is that as an under one year old, she actually loved looking out at people, trees, the sky etc. I would always periodically lean forward and comment on something she had spotted or chat a bit.

I may get slated for this but actually as a sahm I spend a lot of time with my dd, talking, playing and reading. I enjoy being able to just 'think' when we are out walking, as she is happy enough. I am writing a book, so I will think up ideas or characters. But ho hum, no I feel guilty about that

Georgimama · 22/08/2011 17:18

Well, DD has a rear facing pram. But she spends quite a lot of her time in it in the garden staring up at the birds, bees and trees. So that's not going to help her language skills much.

Meglet · 22/08/2011 17:19

I never had a parent facing buggy. My DC's are super chatty and nursery have mentioned their good vocabulary.

My dc's were much happier seeing the world go by than looking at my grumpy sleep deprived face.

DS used to charm the old ladies in town from a young age, I had to bear in mind our visits would take longer than I planned as they would be coo-ing over him.

OpinionatedMum · 22/08/2011 17:46

I had a forward facing pushchair from birth with DD. She used to go to sleep as soon as I started pushing her. Must have been the trauma that lulled her off to sleep. Hmm

I used to bump her on and of buses and push her though busy streets. Never seemed bothered. If she wasn't asleep she seemed content and interested in everything that was going on around her.

Advanced in her language development too.

Meh, load of bollocks, get whatever sling or pushchair suits you.

Valetude · 22/08/2011 17:51

But this is all clearly rubbish.
Ignore it.
Everyone I know who carries their kids a lot has problems with them refusing to walk, being quite unhealthily clingy etc. It ends up being a pain in the arse.

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