great article in today's guardian by natasha walter

[bossykate]

here

blu there is an inevitability about the fact that he is probably a really really crap dad!

aloha is not always reasonable btw

Can I reply tomorrow Sohp? me bedtime

yes. but just to pour petrol on fire: have just googled and read the oliver james article and don't see why you're so peed off with him. he's saying that colic causes massive mental distress in parents, that both of his kids had it (no holier than thou-ness there) and that there may be an argument that for the small proportion of babies that have identifiable physical cause feeding on mainly foremilk without getting to the fat rich bit at the end can cause colic symptoms....

don't get your beef with it at all.

Beef with the fact that that is all common knowledge anyway. I remember being a bit miffed about him suggesting that if babies were properly latched on it would 'cure' colic in blah blah percent of babies and though that was rubbish as the causes of colic aren't pinned down at all. I do have a wholly irrational dislikeing of the man and probaly fall foul to a great many of my own burgeoning standards. But that's just cos he's a dick! Catch you tomorrow

Angry Young Women.

Men ain't that free though. Mostly chained to the house much more than in prev. years. Forced to help with housework and childcare, their forefathers never had to do that.

sorry, i should be in bed but...forced ??????

nagged??

sophable don't you think oliver james is a terrible media tart tho?

Oh, okay..I'm defo off to bed

what's the goss then?

OJ always comes across as a complete knob in his grauniad articles. There's something really unattractive about a grown man constantly whining on about how crap his childhood was and how f*ked up he is by it - GET OVER YOURSELF, OLIVER!

I don?t know really Soph, am I oppressed by the weight of my own expectations or by the expectations that society places upon me? And if so am I oppressed at all? There?s a balance to be struck between what Rousseau?s states in The Social Contract ? the greatest good for the greatest number, basically ? rights with responsibilities, etc balanced against Hobbes thesis of the benevolent dictator who although they rule and shape our lives to great effect, they also protect us from the greater evils of human nature by imposing law and structures on the societies we live in ? by means of force if necessarily. At the moment that is the U.S. They are needed because game theory tells us that when something reaches a state of equilibrium it is then most vulnerable to exploitation as outside forces attempt to shift the balance in their own favour. In other words, stability is always vulnerable to attack and that is the constant jostling we see in politics. The media get away with all of this by exploiting peoples ignorance of politics and every time we claim politics to be boring we become complicit in that. But I really don?t know enough about it. Someone else on Mumsnet will though, and if they do can they CAT me and teach me a thing or two?

Carolinafullmoon

I always think of the man in The Life of Brian Who who said it was his right to have a baby - 'Don't you oppress me!'

cannot bear Oliver James

Me neither. Get a haircut Oliver. Can I also put Darian Leader in the media tart "psychologist" Room 101 please?
Have not always seen eye to eye with NW in the past but thought that was an excellent article. Had MIL on the phone the other night asking slyly what I thought of the Penelope Leach survey. Nearly severed own tongue to prevent myself spitting bile about MIL's own complete unwillingness to help us out vs her complete willingness to cluck about how tired the children must be in daycare all day.

thanks for the food for though, monkey!

flum, for god's sake, are we supposed to feel sorry for men because at long last they (sometimes) pull (some) of their wight in the home?? I don't want a conflictual relationship with men, but surely it's only normal in today's society? many men are more than happy not to have to assume the role of patriarch/sole breadwinner etc anyhow

she went out with one of my best friends at college . He was very in love with her.

I really want to go and watch The Life of Brian now

Oliver James quite quite vile. Extraordinarily vile in fact. Give up the gossip, blu. Pleeeeese!

2nd

2nd? I is confused mp.

Sorry, I second that emoticon

or..Spill Blu!!

Ah! I see. Sorry- was being dim. Blu- what is the gossip, girlfriend? We all want to hear confirmation that OJ is as vile as we've long suspected (except sophable who is having a rather surprising and inexplicable lapse in her usual good taste .)

i don't fancy him fgs! he looks like a mack wearing dodgy and agree that he should cut the hair and give up the media tart-ness.

however he is the only mainstream bastion of stuff that is (as you say mt) common knowledge amongst those that study child devpt whether as therapists or neuroscientists (psychotherapy and neuroscience are converging and it's v exciting).

he is for example the only person that says f*ck off to the legion commentators that put everything from sexuality to antisocial behaviour down to genes....a genetic predisposition is a much smaller factor in how people turn out then what happens to them in early life, and yet people much prefer the neatness of blaming it all on genes despite the fact that twin studies refute this over and over again.

i think 'they f*ck you up' his book is great in that it is extremely well referenced...annoying that he uses portraits of slebs to do some of his explaining but the thinking is sound.

there.

Come on Blu, out with this gossip!