Can a low-energy student thrive at Oxford or Cambridge?

[fortyfourbooks]

Another Oxbridge one!
Has anybody’s DC got low energy levels for whatever reason and done well or doing well at Oxford or Cambridge?
Our Yr12 DD is very keen to try for Oxford or Cambridge. Her GCSEs were great, mostly 9s and 8s. She is also very passionate about her subject, and loves a good debate, diving deep into issues etc. Very competitive also. On the face of it, Oxbridge would suit her. But, and a big but, she has pretty low energy, always has had. She has some physical issues, but not got a diagnosis or anything. She also worries a lot because of this, as it makes it quite hard for her to deal with heavy workloads. At the moment she has great friends, but does not manage to do any socialising or hobbies outside of school. But then, she has so far done well regardless.
I understand Oxbridge are both full-on though, and very demanding. So, has anybody else’s DC been fine at Oxford or Cambridge despite low energy levels. We would love to give her the chance to do whatever suits her. But realistically we don’t have the funds for her to drop out halfway and start again elsewhere. And of course want her to feel good while at uni, and not just manage.

What subject would she be looking at reading ? Stem subjects at Cambridge are incredibly high workload.

Natural sciences/biology most likely ..

What would that look like in practice, the high workload, as compared to other universities, eg. RG? Is it the tutor/supervisor system? More contact hours, content, practicals, self-study, all of those? It is completely new to us, none of our family/friends/colleagues went to Oxbridge, so not sure what to consider!

There's no harm in at least trying for it. There will be plenty of hurdles to cross before you have to actually worry about it being an option for her.

She shoud attend some open days, then look at past papers for the ESAT and some interview prep videos on YouTube. If she finds the work required for that overwhelming, that will be a clue.

The main difference in workload between Oxbridge and the rest of the Russell Group is from the tutorial system, and the level of scrutiny her work will be put under by her tutor.

In other universities she will likely get minimal feedback on her work. In Oxbridge she'll get a lot, and she'll have to defend her reasoning to her tutor in her tutorial group, maybe in front of a couple of peers, and work through any problems she got wrong.

It will very much depend on the tutor on whether this feedback is delivered with a more 'tough love' approach or something softer. Some thrive under this level of scrutiny, others do not.

Natural Sciences at Cambridge is very high workload and very intense trying to cram everything into only 8 weeks where other universities have 10 weeks per term. The timetable is usually 12 hours of lectures per week (including Saturday lectures) 4 supervisions per week (one per subject) and also labs which can be several hours long. See timetable information below.

https://universityofcambridgecloud.sharepoint.com/sites/NST_NaturalSciencesTripos/SitePages/Part-IA.aspx

I think she will be ok.

I went to Oxford. There’s a lot of independent study/ downtime in that sense. I rarely rent to lectures as I found for law at least the various professors just read out the chapters of their books! And had two tutorials a week. So not a huge amount of class time. I don’t know if she has lab time as part of her degree though

How far is her college away from the sciences building? There can be a fair bit of distance to cover.

Has she had a blood test? Thyroid? Iron?

Should throw in I had health issues whilst I was there and got through. I would apply for it and see how she gets on. She loves her subject and that enthusiasm will carry through. I most certainly did not haha

I think Cambridge gives a better levels of teaching / more hands on than Oxford and it’s better for sciences. I found it quite stressful not having more structure or actual teaching, it felt like it was almost self taught!

I would see if she wants to visit them on open days - subject and colleges and see what she thinks. It is 8 week terms so terms and shorter and more intense than elsewhere but easier to come home the other half of the year if that's a factor. Its always higher risk with mental health if you have all your eggs in one basket so if she just studies, doesn't socialise, doesn't have hobbies if she struggles on course that would be higher risk. But she may just not have found her interests / being a late developer re interests and there's every interest under the sun. Also if she does sport then energy level increases if she has any interest in that. A year out might be worth considering as well.

Getting 8s and 9s doesn’t mean she’ll get the grades required for A-Level. The vast majority of people on those course will get all A*s at A-Level. She would also be competing for a place against people who get those grades alongside doing a great deal of extracurricular hobbies/activities.

If she’s just started year 12 I wouldn’t underestimate the step up in effort required for A-levels.

If there is a medical issue you need to have it formalised so she can apply for the appropriate help and support. If gets a place I would expect her to be supported.

Oxbridge terms are shorter and more intense than terms at other universities.

I would still encourage her to apply, if she got in it would be silly to turn down but it’s still very early days in terms of seeing how her a levels will go.

Thank you all. That is all very helpful. I forgot about the shorter terms. It does seem very intense, and she may well be put off by it. She is just as much looking forward to being a student and being a part of societies, clubs etc., as the actual studying. She has lots of interests, she just doesn’t get to do much after school at the moment. So she’ll have to decide whether she thinks it would be worth it, even if she would be fine workload-wise.

She will probably thrive with the feedback and being challenged, I think it will inspire her rather than bring her down. The thing is that she herself is very excited and would like to go for it, but I feel that it is my job as a parent to look at the practicalities, all while encouraging and not discouraging her! Very aware I may be overly cautious having seen her struggle in the past!

I think seeing how she finds the application process is a good shout. I do realise as well that anything can still happen this year. She has definitely noticed that yr 12 is a bit of a step up from GCSE level!

Her bloods are all OK, by the way, it is more a muscle and nerve issue. We are in the process of getting a diagnosis, but it is likely not treatable. So she’ll have to find a way around it and prioritise.

I did a STEM subject at a RG university. I didn't get into Oxford. The school wanted me to take a year out and reapply to Cambridge for NatSci as I had the grades for it including in STEP papers (which at that time were also available in the sciences and not just Maths). But what really put me off was having to study other science subjects when actually I just wanted to focus on one of them and also the intensity of the course, including the Saturday morning lectures.

So I went elsewhere and I loved it but it was also very hard work. We had two full days of labs and they were very tiring. We were on our feet all day. It's worth looking into how many hours of labs she would have at Oxbridge or at any other universities she is interested in. The university I went to also had tutorials in groups of 3 or 4 and they were intense, but we only had one a week, unlike if she went to Cambridge where she would have one in each of her subjects.
Then you have the fact the terms are shorter so it's a lot more intense.

I think she should keep going along the path she is now, aiming to go to Oxbridge and doing what she would need to get in. Apply and see how she gets on. It's 1 choice out of 5. As this year continues you'll know more about the condition she has and what arrangements can be made to support her with this and what she would be able to manage. Also, as the year goes on she will have a better picture of whether she still wants to go or not.

@rjfiih thank you, it’s good to read your perspective of someone going to a different RG uni, and making a conscious choice not to reapply to Cambridge. Great to see that you loved your choice, and good for me to be reminded that other universities would not be a walk in the park either (if she even gets in!). We have been to one open day at a fairly local RG uni and DD did love it there. They were inspirational, but not in the way Oxbridge are. We’ll see how she goes. School are keen for her to try, it’s a school where a student last went to Cambridge about 4 years ago now. It was such a novelty that the girl was in the local paper for it. So DD is getting a bit of pressure from the teachers as well, which is not helpful at this stage, but at least we know she will be supported to apply, if she decides that’s want she wants to do.

I don't know about sciences, but DS1 at Oxford had two essays a week to write versus two a term for DS 2, at a very good RG uni.

My DD has just graduated from a top RG university in Natural Sciences (biology/earth science). She has a condition which causes chronic fatigue and has got a lot worse in the three years so I will admit that it’s been touch and go but she’s dragged herself over the finish line. She hasn’t been allowed to go on field trips and has deadline extensions. She didn’t apply to Oxbridge as she didn’t like the course but I suspect they’re quite similar in demand. My DD has been through patches where she regretted not going to somewhere “easier” but would now say it’s been worth it. I also suspect your DD will regret it if she doesn’t give it a go at least. You might also want to think about travel distance; my DD has come home quite often to give herself a break from adulting and feeling like she ought to socialise.

@angelcake20 No. They are not similar. They have shorter terms and it’s very intense.

If you go to open days, check where the lectures are and how easily she will be able to get between them (and get to them - different colleges will be close to different lecture theatres / departments). There might only be a 5-10 minute gap between some lectures which are in different departments (5 minutes walk away), so worth thinking about (and discussing with them) how to manage that.

On the other side of the coin, the college system might help with some aspects of low energy - everything is on site (check specific colleges though), like accommodation, meals, bar and other socialising spaces, many of the activities/hobbies, many supervisions, even things like gyms, chapel, health care (to an extent), etc, and if it's a college near the city centre, also supermarkets and shopping and so on. she could still choose a college near the department, too,

I think for some students, the clubs and hobbies are easier when it's all split into smaller colleges, as while you can do university-wide high standard societies, you can also do college-level sport, music, etc as well, which are possibly easier to access and less intimidating, and take less effort to take part in when they are close at hand.

Some students barely leave their college apart from lectures, and yet still have fairly active and busy lives.

But of course it's also true about the high workload, short terms, etc

Wow, that is some difference

@angelcake20 well done your DD for persevering! And good to hear from someone that has been in the same kind of situation and made it work.

Also didn’t know how much is possible within the colleges, and all of the other points you've all brought up are useful, so again, thank you all.

Sixth form has properly started now, so DD is focusing on that, and also coming to terms with her limitations, so thinking about university has been put on the back burner for now.

My DS did Maths at Cambridge. The workload was huge and he was given a lot of work to do during the holidays, so there was little respite. Fortunately he’s very high energy and resilient so he coped fine. Not everyone did though. Some struggled and a couple dropped out or changed course. I don’t think I’d wish it on a delicate DC. There are lots of other really great unis.

Agree not similar at all. Much bigger workload.

@fortyfourbooks
I found this page from Keble College which explains the workload for chemistry:
https://www.keble.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduates/subjects/chemistry/

Although a lot of people on here would like to tell you differently, this was the same workload in terms of contact time as I had at a RG uni for chemistry.
As I said in my previous post, if she went to do NatSci at Cambridge she would have tutorials in each of her subjects each week.

A lot of people commenting are talking about arts subjects having many more essays to be done at Oxbridge compared to other universities and this is true. Sciences are different in that the lab work has to be done, no matter where you are, and that this could be difficult standing up and moving around all day if you daughter has low energy.

It might be worth seeing if there is a summer school for her subject somewhere, doesn't have to be Oxbridge, where she attends for a week and they have labs, lectures etc., and she'd get a feel of what it would be like to study.

I don't actually think that physically there would be much difference between Oxbridge and other universities because she will have to do lab work anywhere. The mental demands would be different depending on where she goes.
There will be a final year project too with many hours spent in labs, unless she chooses something theoretical (such as computer modelling) where she can sit down instead! My final year project was very physical as I was having to move a lot of heavy equipment around, attach gas cylinders and so on. She'd need to make sensible choices!

And actually, as others have said, college life might be good for her as she can join in with things there rather than having to trek across a city on foot or on the bus - same applies to getting to lectures and labs.

Let her concentrate on her A-levels as you say she is going to, aim for Oxbridge if she still wants to apply and choose colleges carefully. Also choose her other choices carefully based on her needs. If she has a diagnosis by then you'll have more idea of how her needs can be met at the university and I am sure you will be able to talk to peope there about it.

Also to add my DS had lectures on Saturdays too at Cambridge. Unheard of at other unis.

No one can have any idea what the workload is like at all other universities. My DD and many of her friends have worked ridiculously hard, and for longer. The students I know at Oxbridge are not working any harder. It is however very course dependent.