BA English Literature - KCL v UCL

[Ranleigh]

A family member has an offer from both KCL and UCL to study English Literature. They
are inclined to go with KCL because they
think the KCL course has more interesting modules and also offers students the chance to study abroad. UCL ranks higher in the league tables for English Literature but is more traditional (and possibly more dry with a more intense workload?).

Does anyone have any insights they could please share on the KCL and UCL English literature courses and overall university experience?

Any information/experiences greatly appreciated!

@Ranleigh It won’t make any difference! What employer will really care? I’m assuming the goal is to get a job afterwards. What are career aims?

I also do think pushing yourself and doing more work at uni is beneficial after uni. Work is usually full on and those who get through work accurately and quickly are valued so a higher pressure course can be good training. However I would advise choosing the course that suits and reading what you like is always going to seem easier.

I would strongly suggest DC considers career goals early and looks into getting internships and work experience whilst at uni. English grads have to compete against many others for work and love of literature doesn’t necessarily help if nothing else is on the cv.

Or maybe she just wants to study for the joy of it. Which is a fine goal in itself. Doesn't have to be all about the career afterwards.

If she thinks there are modules more suited to her at KCL that's a valid reason. But both will have a lot of variety and ability to pick things to her taste. Plus her tastes might change as she gets into it.

Maybe look at the whole package. Housing, values of the institution, vibe? And I say that as a UC alumni who thinks UCL is the best.

@TizerorFizz @DappledThings @NotgoodatpoetrybutgreatatlitThank you so much for all your replies. It's good to know there's not that much of a difference. DC would like to go into academia and so would be looking to do a postgraduate course aftwards.

I should add that DC likes all literature so is not put off by UCL's more traditional syllabus but just felt that KCL offered more diverse and therefore more interesting modules.

@DappledThings That is a luxury position these days. Most people need a job afterwards. Sadly IFS data suggests an English degree doesn’t give much of an earnings premium over not having a degree at all. As London is expensive unless DC live at home, just doing a degree for the love of it is ok for those intending to teach but not wholly realistic for others. It’s why many arts/humanities grads don’t get grad jobs at all. I think a broader approach to a cv is better these days. I am not an academic though.

Beautiful architecture at KCL. Might be sensible to investigate how examinations/assements conducted at KCL are your DD's cup of tea. Can get a tad stressful

Best of luck!

I have an English degree, admittedly from some time ago. My cohort have good jobs in theatre, publishing, law, etc., and crucially they are jobs that they enjoy. Academia is not a path I’d recommend though. Or DC should hedge their bets and ensure that they make themselves employable in other sectors too. The market is flooded with PhD graduates who can’t get into academia (in my university it’s common for there to be 200 applications for a lecturer position). Funding opportunities for PhDs are also being reduced (and funding was difficult enough to secure before now). Even if you are one of the lucky few who lands an academic position there is a culture of overwork and burnout. Lots of redundancies at the moment too for this subject, and students having significantly fewer option modules available to them as staff are pushed out quickly.

Go for the course with the most interesting modules. No point studying something you don't enjoy/is boring just for a "better" university.

It’s a wonder anyone goes to some of the totally ugly unis we have! Cannot say either of my DDs worried about buildings and beauty. Adults do though.

If she enjoys the content of the courses at KCL then that's probably the better choice. She'll be much more engaged and successful in her learning and coursework if she likes what she's reading!

I studied literature at uni and ended up with a career in finance. It's not so much about the subject of your degree dictating your job these days so much as it is a vehicle for learning skills that are invaluable for work and life - close reading, critical thinking, persuasive writing and debating of ideas.

This is especially the case at top-end unis where you'll be learning with high quality professors and students, and really challenging your thinking. The issue with a lot of arts and humanities degrees especially is when they're done at low quality establishments, so students leave with neither hard skills nor these softer skills.

On a side note - my area of focus for my master's degree has often come up in job interviews (it's on my CV) even though it's not at all related to my career. Many employers will like that you've engaged with a wide variety of ideas, not spent years single-mindedly focused on one thing.

@cassiatwenty I think it's a combination of coursework and exams both of which are fine.

@GCAcademic Thank you very much for your detailed reply. That's a bit worrying so I will definitely pass that on.

@belladonna22 If you don't mind, can I ask whether you had finance related ''A' levels (maths/ economics etc)

I did my schooling and undergrad outside of the UK (came here for postgrad and have had my whole career here), so I didn't do A-levels. In my country all students do maths until 18, but it wasn't my strong area - I excelled in literature and languages. At uni I took one economics course.

My role is not maths intensive (I'm not a trader or an accountant), so while it's important to have basic numeracy, it's more about understanding financial concepts and economic trends, most of which I picked up through reading newspapers and through formal and informal training over the course of my career.

In my role I need to do a lot of writing and know a lot about finance. It was very hard for them to find someone who was a good writer -- teaching me the finer points of how a bank works was relatively easy!

@belladonna22 That's very interesting, thank you.

I also have an eng lit degree - albeit from a while back - but the range of careers from my contemporaries is vast so I don’t see how English lit really puts anyone at a disadvantage against other less vocational degrees. Friends of mine off my course are solicitors, barristers, accountants, copywriters, teachers, journalists and more

The UCL course is quite particular - rather Oxbridge in style. Their big selling point is having regular one to one tutor sessions which is very unusual. I only know this from my child applying though, not from hearing how that works in practice so might be worth truffling away at a bit more. It sound as though there is more contact time at UCL

KCL offers more scope to do some of the "lighter" stuff eg film modules etc.

I don't know how much difference if at all that would make for future academia.

The UCL course is much harder to get on to - much lower offer rate - but of course that doesn't mean she has to go there just because she can!

Cravenly, it probably isn't a decision you want hung at your door so once all angles investigated and discussed, she has to own it.

Years ago there were not the same number of grads as there are now. Times were different.

There’s nothing wrong with an English degree but DC will compete against holders of all manner of degrees for jobs. Therefore all I’m saying is get more on the cv. My DD is a barrister after doing a MFL degree. Lots of her friends don’t have law degrees and converted to law. All careers are possible but DD started to get her ducks in a row in y2 at uni. Some careers won’t need this level of dedication but these days, some do. So it’s better to think about a career early. Last minute can become very problematic as it’s not just English grads who are critical thinkers, can write well and are intelligent.

I feel that work experience is key for all manner of degrees now - it’s about making your cv stand out - so yes, totally agree

My son had a similar dilemma for history between the 2 universities and opted for UCL.

I don't think it will make any difference to career prospects so let him make the decision. I like the idea of the small seminar groups at UCL too.

Just let her go with which one she wants to go to.

Thank you all - this has been very helpful and will encourage DC to go with their gut.

For humanities grads in their life after uni the issue tends to be what sort of degree you have - ie a 2:1 or better from a top uni (and KCL and UCL are both that) indicates that someone is intelligent, hard working and (if they can also demonstrate extra curriculars on their CV) well organised. Like it or not unless they are looking at a grad scheme in a major law firm or accountancy practice that has decided to recruit institution blind then where they went will matter and KCL vs UCL is unlikely to be a big issue. When people quote stats about how humanities grads don't get grad level jobs - this really doesn't apply to grads from Oxbridge and the upper echelons of the Russell Group (but would be relevant if the choice was between say UCL and one of the bottom ranking UK unis).

That being said if she likes the sound of the modules at KC better then she might be more engaged with them and therefore achieve a better degree. Also if she's done time abroad and done well that is something likely to interest a future employer as it demonstrates adaptability and a willingness to go outside her comfort zone.

@londonmummy1966 Unfortunately that’s not true. It just applies less. University in the higher echelons of RG will not necessarily open doors above a very proactive DC with a decent cv from, say, Surrey or Sussex. I cannot think of any employer who just looks at uni and not degree or ask candidates to go through various tests and interviews. Don’t forget lots of ex polys also offer very tailored degrees which employers like. I just would not take anything for granted.

Both KCL and UCL are 70% in the CUG for graduate prospects (English) so neither are that great. Only 6 in the top 20 are above 80%.

I disagree for 2 reasons - if there are 2 candidates one from Sussex and one from KCL with similar proactivity etc then it is hardly going to disadvantage the KCL candidate to have gone to KCL is it? I did mention the extra curriculars in my post. I also pointed out that the humanities grads who struggle to get grad jobs are those with degrees from the lower ranking unis and 'd hardly class Sussex or Surrey as that (Ravensbourne vs KCL would be a different matter). Either way KCL vs UCL isn't going to be an issue.

Secondly most people don't get into their first grad job and stay there for 20 years. CVs matter far far more in second and subsequent jobs when the activities undertaken at uni are of far less interest. Faced with 2 newly qualified Big 4 accountants where the job goes may well boil down to who went where.

Frankly given the outcomes are after only 15 months I don't think that they are that useful given many English grads may well be looking at work in areas which require further qualification (eg they'll still be working for LPC if they want to be solicitors) or internships (theatre/journalism etc)