BA English Literature - KCL v UCL

[Ranleigh]

A family member has an offer from both KCL and UCL to study English Literature. They
are inclined to go with KCL because they
think the KCL course has more interesting modules and also offers students the chance to study abroad. UCL ranks higher in the league tables for English Literature but is more traditional (and possibly more dry with a more intense workload?).

Does anyone have any insights they could please share on the KCL and UCL English literature courses and overall university experience?

Any information/experiences greatly appreciated!

@YourPithyLilacSheep

Of course plenty of grads want to get on with their career but the stats tell you English grads don't always find it easy. I suspect few from the best unis but English is offered in a lot of places. So lots of students do end up with low level jobs.

We hear about young people unable to afford housing. It's very difficult for those on slow burn careers but of course many DCs are proactive about their career - all I'm saying is that they need to be.

I would be willing to bet money that no lawyers employ more English grads than other grads. It's inconceivable. English grads have the same skills as history, MFL, classics, etc grads and they all get law jobs too. Even those who take law get those jobs. There's fierce competition. Therefore the problem I am highlighting is that English grads are competing against so many similar grads for work. Thinking about a career early helps.

I agree with @TizerorFizz
I'm an English Lit grad and I've seen the variety of careers out there for my contemporaries. In the publishing world, the starting salaries for editorial or marketing assistants are about the same now as they were in 2000. If you want to internship at somewhere like The Economist as a journalist you better have wealthy parents because they will pay your tube fare and not much else. And you have to stick with these jobs / internships to make your mark and get the paid work. I worked in theatre which pays a pittance and then in literary agencies for years and years before stopping to have children. I think the most I earned was still under $40k. Yes, Law is a different matter and a good option but it is not attracting most English Lit grads. And teaching jobs, well, I don't even want to go there...

This popped up on my Twitter feed from my friends who run University English. There are very interesting useful, and reassuring data about the business skills developed by English degrees.

https://universityenglish.ac.uk/englishcreates-campaign-resources/

@YourPithyLilacSheep

No one would need to lobby like that if grads in English were so highly sought after. It's ok for Oxbridge to be involved and elite RG but what about English grads from the lowest ranked unis? They need a work strategy more than many.

Bath Uni posted this about the IFS study on degrees, uni and earnings. Admittedly the poorest outcome for English grads is men, but it's a subject with declining applications. Hence the PR being put together to halt the decline.

@TizerorFizz Just read that report. Any idea why for men, going to uni boosts earnings by just 6% by age 29 while women earn 26% more?

@LadeOde

My one thought would be that women not going to uni get lower paid work than men not going to uni. Maybe men become plumbers and electricians? Speculation but I bet by 29 they could be earning more than hairdressers or unwaged mums.

Because non-grad jobs for women often pay really poorly.

Men who don't go to uni are more likely to have a well-paid trade such as electrician.
Women who don't go to uni are more likely to have no trade or one which pays less eg hair and beauty, health and social care

@TizerorFizz & @SpanThatWorld
Very interesting. This is the part of MN I like.
So could one conclude that a university degree for men matters less than it does for women? or would you say there are other factors apart from earnings that make a big difference between men who have degrees and those who don't or perhaps those other factors apply to both sexes?

@LadeOde

It matters less in some subjects. This is probably because decent paying work is available without a degree that attracts men. Eg Fire fighting, train driver, plumber and loads of construction jobs. The university matters too. The IFS has done lots of research on uni, subjects and earnings. Many people don't like their conclusions - doctors do the best!

Post grad is a very mixed bag too with some post grads getting no extra money at all as they don't secure better jobs. Not the case with every post grad but again students should spend money wisely.

When recruiting, I don’t differentiate between Kings and UCL. I certainly wouldn’t bother looking up their relative rankings - they are much of a muchness.

What I do look at is degree class. In my experience, the more someone enjoys their course, the more likely they are to do well. So she should definitely pick the course which is more interesting.

This thread just popped up and I know it's a couple of weeks old but if it helps I'm doing a postgraduate English degree at kcl & will add the staff (academics, support, departmental) are all lovely & very supportive.

elite RG but what about English grads from the lowest ranked unis? They need a work strategy more than many.

This thread isn't actually ABOUT "lowest ranked" universities. It's about a choice between two world-leading English departments.

@TizerorFizz your constant talking down of certain types of degrees and universities is inaccurate & ill-informed. And it looks like you don't actually understand the posts from seasoned academics on this thread: of course we talk to our students about future careers. None of us has denied this!

At my place (an elite university, they need AAA at the very least to get in) we start talking to them, and bringing in the Careers Service people, about planning summer work placements & internships in their first year. We do regular employability events, and we have modules designed to introduce them to the creative & cultural industries (KCL is also excellent at that), as well as visiting speakers & alumni.

The cultural industries is one of the UK's major industries, a big exporter, and a huge attraction for tourists. People come to the UK specifically to work with our creative artists across all art forms. A training through an English degree is part of this mix.

@YourPithyLilacSheep

Just look at info from IFS. I haven't made it up!! Get real. The thread moved on as many threads do.

A bit off topic as not about UCL and KCL: I know it's tempting for some people to add posts saying "I did English Lit and my contemporaries all now have totally fabulous careers in varied fields" but the graduate landscape has really changed in the last 25/30 years and I don't think this sort of post is helpful.

Stick with what recent grads are doing.

@billymean

I don't think it's entirely off topic. The universities in the OP are very good but you cannot say grads in English will walk into great jobs these days. The data says otherwise and numbers on such courses are decreasing due to that fact. It's best to get work experience and have a career plan. That shouldn't be too difficult to do.