Company offered to sponsor son's degree

[sponsoreddegreequestion]

My son has got the grades he needs to go to a very good university to study Computer Science, starting in a few weeks. This summer he has been doing a paid internship for a local hi-tech company. They have now said they'd like to set up a degree apprenticeship arrangement where they pay for his degree and he works for them in his time off.

Obviously this sounds AMAZING and we are thrilled. It won't be an official degree apprenticeship becuas presumably they can't just magic that up officially in a few weeks. We don't know all the details of the offer yet but assuming the arrangement works like other degree apprenticeships in Computer science (they pay his fees but for the uni he has already been accepted at, he works for them in the summers, still gets a bit of time off for a summer holiday) then it seems great.

But am I missing something? Is this too good to be true?

Sounds amazing!
A friend’s dd had a similar offer, I think she had to commit to working for the company for a few years after completing her degree.
She’s mid/late 20s now, still working for the company, loves her job and is earning loads!

Right, that is probably the main thing to look out for, how tied in will he be after university. I think he wouldn't mind a year or two but we'd have to see what they are offering. He really likes the company so that is a good start.

I'm glad this has happened to at least one other person! I was bowled over.

My degree was sponsored and i was tied to the company for 2 years. I also had to pass everything and complete the degree or they could reclaim the costs from me. So, no option really to drop out if I didn't enjoy it / it was harder than expected etc... None of that was an issue for me (I'm a 'mature' student and had been with my company for 15 years) but the repayment would have been massive!

Thank you, that is very helpful. I was just thinking 'what if he struggles' 😬

It’s not unusual for a company to sponsor an employee to do a degree - the armed services are a case in point (we know someone who did their medical degree via the RN, tied in to 6 years service, you apply after you get your uni place).

You need to see if it’s part of the employment contract or whether it’s a separate training agreement (m understanding is that the latter is more onerous in terms of claw backs).

Brilliant opportunity

Thanks both! I guess I had heard of 'official' sponsorships like the military, degree apprenticeships, or huge companies with well-established schemes that you apply for. This is a company of only 50 or so employees, founded five years ago. It isn't an open opportunity that anyone can apply for, they are just offering it at quite short notice to my son. So they/we will probably have a bit of latitude in setting the terms, and I don't really know what to be aware of. There's also the possibility it will all fall through as other decision-makers get involved.

Part of why it is so good is that it is a vote of confidence in your son, which must be great for his self esteem and belief in himself. Then no student debt will save him 9% tax over a working lifetime. Plus guaranteed work in holidays. Plus he will gain mentors at work who can help him if eg he hits a tricky patch in a module. Sometimes it just needs someone different to explain things in a different way/less theoretical way. Plus they can help him come up with an interesting dissertation relevant to his work, and can get guidance for that too. Plus a guaranteed job at the end for eg 2 years. They will also know they will have to pay him properly or he will be off after 2 years and they have lost their investment.

So multiple reasons why it’s a great idea!

It is an amazing opportunity but the strings are likely to be painful.

How long does he have to work for them? What if he wants to do a PhD? What if he falls in love with someone who comes from Inverness? What if he hates the course?

My employer paid for my post grad for a year and then hired me for two years initially after that. Good for him, he must be delighted

From the company’s point of view, they have captured a young guy with great potential, who they have already seen in action, they can tailor his training in the holidays, and he will pop out at the end custom -built for them and ready to fly, all for the price of probably one set of recruitment agents fees which might result in a duff hire.
man’s if they convert it to a degree apprenticeship the government will subsidise it as well. So he should negotiate - eg only a 2 year lock-in, maybe a maintenance grant as well (even 4-5k pa would help and vacation earnings on top), etc

No doubt the deal would be that he pays the fees back. If he wants to go to a different firm he can negotiate that firm to buy him out. That’s what my DD did when her firm hired her on a grad scheme but paid for her masters and professional qualifications. She only stayed a year and the new employer bought the debt then wrote it off after a year.

If he was prepared to pay for it anyway I can’t see how he can lose. If he hates the course after a year and wants to drop out he’ll likely
need to pay the employer back his fees, which he was prepared to pay anyway.

In which case I’d find out about how the student loan would work, can you apply retrospectively? if after 3 years he decides to move to Inverness with the pp imaginary girlfriend, how would he pay the money back? Could he apply for the student loans and bank it, make some interest off it, then pay it back in a lump sum when he knows he is settled or off the hook etc.

See what they are proposing. Come back and tell us and someone can let you know if it’s an onerous clause.

You must be very proud.

Sounds great OP, I had a similar training contact, although post graduate.

Not reasons not to do it but worth having a plan in place for if:

1. The firm goes bust (given they are only 5 years old) and you need to suddenly cover the ongoing fees etc.
2. For any reason your son can't complete the course (illness, not suited etc) and you'll likely need to reimburse. I wouldn't assume he could get student loans to cover fees already incurred
3. As above but after graduation, he'll have to pay a proportion of the fees off if he wants or has to leave the firm before the end of the contracted period.

If it were me I'd do it but have a plan for how these would be sorted and paid if needed as these could be large numbers!

I’ve seen the odd case of it being a lot more than that. (Admittedly this was a non U.K. person so rules may be different. A company paid for her to come to the U.K. to train to be a doctor and then she would work for them for 10 years. Except whilst here she fell in love with a British lad.) It was a huge amount she had to pay.

What is the position with student loans? Can you still get one?

The fact that they rate him do highly derisks a bit his dropping out because he can’t cope, IMO. You should be able to insure the risk that he drops out due to ill health (physical or mental).

Well he certainly needs to understand the deal before he signs up for it.
I wouldn’t take out a student loan now, interest accrues from day 1.

Fantastic opportunity, guarantee of excellent work experience and cross over for research project ideas etc.

After graduation many people are casting around for the first job or placement, or working as a barista while looking... he won't have this worry.

Also after graduation many people have to have a period of long distance relationship with the girlfriend from Inverness so... no difference there either.

If he's only tied in for 2 years afterwards it still leaves so much of his life for whatever comes next, but with a fantastic foundation of working experience, income and lack of student debt.

The problem with paying his fees back is that he'd have to find the money upfront - paying his fees now means he can get a loan. SLC loans are only available for the current year you apply in, so he couldn't backdate them.

If they pay the apprentice levy, and with 50 employees they probably do, AND the uni he is going to offers apprentice training in the subject he's doing and the specific course is validated to meet the apprenticeship requirements and he's prepared to take one extra year, then the company won't be paying anything out of their own pocket, so shouldn't be tying his hands. There's a lot of 'ands' there though. Time to formally set it up won't be the problem - the above will be.

Could he apply for the student loans and bank it, make some interest off it, then pay it back in a lump sum when he knows he is settled or off the hook etc.

Good idea!

You can't apply for student loans for prior years, I believe you can apply part way through a year you're enrolled in, but for that year only.

In some ways, I think most people could suck up 2 years tied to the company for the sake of effectively £27,000- you can always do a masters etc later and explain why. I think the issue would come if he failed or became too unwell to continue the degree part way through.

Congratulations - these opportunities are only offered to a very small number of students. Yes there could be contractual obligations but definitely worth exploring.

Your insights have all been so helpful.

So we've had a bit more clarity. The proposal is quite different to other degree apprenticeships I've heard of (which aren't many to be fair). This would be a 4 year employment contract with one week at university every term, and one day a week studying, 4 days a week working. He would live at home, not go to university to live. He would have a salary and no education debt. At the end of four years he would have a degree and be free to move on. It would have to be agreed with the university, but they have offered this kind of arrangement before. He has spoken to someone at the company who did exactly this arrangement at the same university, and then moved to this company when he graduated.

Since that is quite a different proposition, it will take some thought. It essentially means missing out of the university experience in favour of financial security and industry experience. I think he will consider it very carefully as it is such a great opportunity and he is not particularly a party animal, but I am struggling to wrap my head around such a big change!

Still possible that the uni won't agree at such short notice.

Ok so that's a standard degree apprenticeship, he won't get to choose the uni, and will have to study over four years not three. There may not be many (or any!) other students in the same position so he'd really have to make the effort to get to know his peers and as you say he won't be living away or in halls or even on campus often.

It's a very different proposition. Great opportunity, but is it what he actively wants?

This may well be a L6 Technology and Digital Solutions apprenticeship. I've linked to MMU's version of this below, as an example. There are different pathways to be selected within this (eg software engineering, cyber, data analytics, tech consulting). To fully appraise the opportunity vs the CS degree, he will need to know the detail of what is being offered.

One of the benefits of doing degree apprenticeships can be mixing with peers at your own business and others on the same course who are employed by other businesses. As he may well be in a cohort of one at his own workplace, it would be useful to find out from the uni which other employers are sponsoring people on his course.

For understandable reasons, there can be a tendancy to focus on 'the money saved' but (as a parent with DC doing non-tech degree level apprenticeship), I would say you need to be someone who actively wants to 'earn and learn in parallel' and not really that fussed if you will not experience 'the uni package'.

You miss out on much that can be offered up socially by full time uni and need to be proactive in building social networks with people your own age without the scaffolding of uni. It can definitely be done but that aspect needs to be addressed full on. It is not about a 'free degree'.

The PwC 'study first' schemes (ie normal uni with guaranteed placements and job at end) is what most parents imagine is on offer; that is rare and what is being described in this thread is the more usual 'do a job with study alongside'.
https://www.mmu.ac.uk/study/apprenticeships/courses/digital-technology-solutions#ai-4356-2