Company offered to sponsor son's degree

[sponsoreddegreequestion]

My son has got the grades he needs to go to a very good university to study Computer Science, starting in a few weeks. This summer he has been doing a paid internship for a local hi-tech company. They have now said they'd like to set up a degree apprenticeship arrangement where they pay for his degree and he works for them in his time off.

Obviously this sounds AMAZING and we are thrilled. It won't be an official degree apprenticeship becuas presumably they can't just magic that up officially in a few weeks. We don't know all the details of the offer yet but assuming the arrangement works like other degree apprenticeships in Computer science (they pay his fees but for the uni he has already been accepted at, he works for them in the summers, still gets a bit of time off for a summer holiday) then it seems great.

But am I missing something? Is this too good to be true?

@IWillNoLie I think that’s exactly it. Oxbridge and others are very international and academic by nature. So they don’t offer part time degrees do they?

Also huge organisations offering many apprenticeships with numerous benefits and high pay are not the same as a 50 employee outfit that’s not paying the apprentice levy. Huge differences. I’m impressed they want to invest but if any DC had a place at an elite uni or a job at a 50 person employer, they should weigh up the longer term where big name unis get grads better salaries. Is a 50 employee company really able to compete? Where you get a degree does matter if you compare elite (not just lower ranking RG!) with post 92 unis.

I think the most important thing is not to be won over at last minute simply by the offer of immediate cash. Straight university courses are a different proposition to degree apprenticeships. And just as courses differ, so do apprenticeships. If you haven’t even considered an apprenticeship until now, why not? What was it about your degree course that won you over? How does this particular apprenticeship offer compare to other apprenticeships? If you were going to take a year out and apply again from scratch, would you consider this particular offer?

It’s not an apprenticeship though is it? It’s a company paying uni fees. What training are they giving? Not much. All work experience is valuable but the whole package should be evaluated.

I’m thinking that getting a degree apprenticeship was too difficult to obtain? They are not widespread in every field.

@sponsoreddegreequestion My son has done this through a construction company to become a Site Engineer (civil engineering). His company sponsored his studies. One day per week at college for 4 years. He lived at home but was earning £21,000 pa as an apprentice at 18 during the 4 years. On finishing that leapt to £26,000 pa. He’s now he 18 months more experience and is on £31,000. With another years practical experience he will get to be Section Engineer on £35-£40K. Pretty good for a 23 year old. No student debt and has been earning decent money from 18 years old. He didn’t get the uni experience but everything else outweighed that. The sky’s the limit really for civil engineers so I imagine he will always been in work and well paid. Could even work abroad and live the ex-pat life. Alternatively stay in this country but have a highly paid pretty stable job which will always be in demand. He’s happy that he chose the apprenticeship and loves the job. Now he’s looking to buy a property next year with a little help from us for the deposit. He’s got enough saved already for the deposit so could do it alone but we thought a bigger deposit will help reduce the interest rate on the loan. Not a bad position for a 23 year old to be in. He’s worked hard and we’re proud of him. Working and studying is not easy but you’ve got the added bonus of earning but not accruing any debt. Win-win.

His career will be limited without Chartered or Incorporated engineer status. Civil engineering is an industry with professional qualifications for the best money and prospects. My DH is a Civil Engineering consultant. Site work can be useful but design is where the money is. Getting experience of both is best. HS2, for example, is populated by site staff but none have designed it. What qualifications does he have for designing when a 3 or 4 year full time recognised degree is required? I remain slightly sceptical of what recognised engineering qualification was actually offered.

A civil engineering degree apprenticeship can get you a BEng in civils, qualifying for IEng status.

Portsmouth Uni does a good course.

https://www.port.ac.uk/study/courses/undergraduate/beng-hons-civil-engineer-degree-apprenticeship-civil-engineering

HS2, for example, is populated by site staff but none have designed it.

Not everyone wants to be office based. I know a few people working on HS2, there is a lot of data collection, novel trials and modelling, research and problem solving required during site works that suit people that prefer hands on work.

IEng is not chartered. It will take a long time to get that. Apprentices should know the difference between the degrees before deciding what to do.

When DH was young the grad engineers went out on site and designed. That way they learnt everything. I still don’t see how 1 day a week at uni and no design experience prepares you for IEng. It’s just part of the job!

@TizerorFizz Re your comment His career will be limited without Chartered or Incorporated engineer status:

The Portsmouth degree apprenticeship I linked to is the same BEng degree qualification that students could get at any university - one that qualifies grads for IEng and partially towards CEng.

The Portsmouth degree is well regarded, and the department always had a good reputation in ground engineering for instance.

Not everyone wants to go straight into a 4 year MEng degree at aged 18, and there’s a lot to be said for working for a while after graduating before deciding if you want to do a Masters.

I still don’t see how 1 day a week at uni and no design experience prepares you for IEng. It’s just part of the job!

Given that students are spending 4 days a week learning on the job, what makes you think that they aren’t gaining relevant design skills during that time?

There are different routes than the traditional one that your DH’s company has followed.

Degree apprenticeship give you a degree. Lev 6 apprenticeship might not always be a degree apprenticeship, they should have the correct name. They are fantastic and competitive so this is a great offer. The decision is between starting to work and earn now, I'm sure he can still have a social life just not 9 to 5! Or be a ft student with the student lifestyle. Long term he can do a ft ma at 25 if he wants to go be a ft student for a year. Many boys don't do well at uni and would do fantastic with the structure provided here.

I think that because most companies cannot provide the breadth of design experience and academic grounding for the 1 day a week plus experience degree to compete with Sheffield or Bristol, for example. Contractors obviously don’t provide a breadth of experience . They don’t design anything. People like DH do the design.

When DH was a very young grad engineer on site they were paid more (a lot more) but then did design work to get chartered and design is still required. Back in the day he was, at just 25. Probably impossible now.

BTW lev 6 is degree with hons equivalent, level 5 degree, lev 4 HND and lev 3 a levels. Lev 2 gcse grade 5+ and lev 1 gcse grade 4 to 1.

Level 7 is masters. Post grad that are not masters like pgce are lev 6 but some teaching equivalents like dtlls are lev 5
You can do dtlls pgce at level 6 though.

@TizerorFizz

Contractors absolutely can do design works - principal contractors often have their own design teams.

Whilst the 4 year Portsmouth degree apprenticeship won’t be the same experience as doing a 3 year full time degree at Sheffield, I’d note that both have been equally rated by the JBM as meeting IEng / partially meeting CEng requirements.

@TizerorFizz all the things you mention are within his grasp in the future. For a young person at the start of his career he is doing more than ok and getting plenty of all round experience. And is also getting plenty of invaluable advice from his father who is a Management Consultant in the construction industry and didn’t go to uni, did college on day release, has chartered and incorporated status and has been earning mega bucks for more than 30 years without major design experience. I think he’s more than capable of pointing him in the right direction!

Ah. So probably didn’t have to compete too hard then. Whets your idea of mega bucks?

This is fantastically rude

@TizerorFizz he competed with loads if you must know. No nepotism here. Though it’s typical of someone like you to think that! You obviously have experience of it! As for mega bucks, it’s pretty tawdry to discuss money but I think four figures per day for the last 20 years is pretty impressive. Five figures when abroad. Because he’s highly respected and sought after in his field and value for money.

If you are doing a degree apprenticeship at a decent company you are not only learning during the times you in uni. You are not filing/photocopying/making coffee the rest of the time. You are receiving on the job training.

@Delphigirl Absolutely rude!!! Obviously touched a nerve with @TizerorFizz

Just look at the requirements for IEng. The poster seems to think that “Site Engineer” is a qualification. It’s not. There has to be design to be IEng. So boasting about earnings on site with no design experience, because he doesn’t want an office job, does limit qualification. You cannot learn design on site. It’s that simple. Obviously other firms provide all round training.

No nepotism in the construction world? Of course not!

@TizerorFizz you’ve got yourself all confused. Maybe you need a little lie down. I’m not the OP. Look at the thread and reply to the person who needs your advice!! I don’t.

Did I tag you? Apologies if that was wrong.

@TizerorFizz why are you going on about Civil & Site Engineering when the Ops son is looking at Computing Science?

Doing a degree part-time is a long hard slog, particularly in the later years as work are expecting more of you and the course makes demands too.
But it means you graduate with 4 or 5 years experience under your belt and you already have a job. And you escape £££ worth of student debt.

All in I think the kid would be mad to give up the opportunity.

@sponsoreddegreequestion what has he decided? It's a very tough choice.

He actually hasn't had final details yet. But I think (?) he has decided on university because he has the rest of his life to work, he is likely to be a high earner and his student debt will be manageable.

I am happy if he goes to uni. He has an incredible drive and work ethic, and finds socialising hard. He has only just learned to relax and go out with friends in the last year of sixth form, and the thought of him suddenly only having his older colleagues as his social group just seems so so sad. It felt very.... closed... for him to choose to live at home and work for four years instead of spreading his wings.