View of Liberal Arts degree?

[Pumpkin354]

Hi, I've always understood that Liberal arts degrees are not as well respected as a pure humanities or social science degree, but it seems to be the way forward nowadays if you want to mix humanities and social sciences with a bit of language (without having to do language 50% or only history/politics for example).

A number of the top universities seem to offer some variation now - UCL does ESPS and arts & sciences BSAC, Durham does a combined social science or a liberal arts, Bristol offers liberal arts etc.

Any opinions? thanks

I think it has come over from the US. As you say, several of the top unis now offer it and the entrance grades are higher than for eg a straight hums degree. Some of them (Birmingham for example) also mix in natural sciences. Th aim is for it to be prestigious and competitive entry.

DD is in her first year doing liberal arts. I can't see it not being highly regarded given the grades she was expected. It was actually recommended to her by a senior lecturer from Oxford.

Where does your always understood emanate from OP?

DD is in her third year of liberal arts, currently doing a year abroad.
I didn't know anything about it before she chose it so I had no idea whether it is well respected or otherwise.
I think DD slightly regretted it to start with because she was thinking what is she actually going to do with it afterwards? But I think it's a very good rounded degree so I'm not concerned. She is developing very good critical thinking skills. She is fluent in a language. And she has been able to add in some really interesting modules like marketing and criminology.

I think it's a fab degree. Sounds really interesting and entry requirements are very high so seems prestigious enough.

Mostly top universities offer it so of course entry requirements are high. The only way of knowing if employers like it is to look at employment rates and where grads are getting jobs. They will be competing with all the grads from humanities and social sciences and MFL grads. I don’t think they have an advantage or disadvantage. Ability to do employment tests and interviews is what matters in the end. Not whether you have done politics or liberal arts. Many degrees have wide ranging options now and what you do afterwards probably won’t be a direct link to the degree. It’s more about research skills, thought process, critical thinking and what employers want as opposed to what actually study. Also what the grad wants!

Thank you all that is very reassuring. @Piggywaspushed I really don’t know where that came from, just something I presume I read but it might have been quite a few years back and maybe it’s better known now. It’s odd as it also seems to be my DDs view but I think she needs to take another look at it as it offers the flexibility she wants. As you all point out, the entry grades are certainly no lower than for any other humanities/social science degree.

I just wondered OP as it's relatively new in UK so was never on offer until quite recently. My understanding is that in the US its considered very highly. This may well be because their university system tends to place breadth of learning above deep specialism.

The point tizer is that the entry requirements at individual universities are higher for Liberal Arts than they are for single or joint honours so, for example, requirements for Liberal Arts at Birmingham are higher than the requirements for history. I only cite that because I know that one without looking it up. It's the same across the board.

@Pumpkin354
Warwick have undertaken research on the careers their students progress into. It’s easy to find on their web site. It was written in 2018 and it’s “Career Destinations for Liberal Arts Graduates”. It suggests many like research based careers but others are investigated.

Which uni is she studying at?

@Piggywaspushed
You are not correct. The entry requirements for Liberal Arts are not higher everywhere. I have compared History and Liberal Arts at Bristol, Warwick and Durham. They require identical grades at each university. Durham requires AstarAA. The other two AAA. So I suggest the OPs DD really looks in depth about courses and options. I’ve just compared BA degrees but there are options of year abroad, year in industry etc.

@NCTDN she’s at Exeter

Also Law at Bristol requires an A star. If you are looking at sociology then yes, there will be differences in grades required. Politics looks about the same too.

Comparing a range of subjects really.

You wouldn't apply for Liberal Arts if you wanted to do a law degree. I wasn't saying they were higher than all other subjects. But they are at the top end of grade requirements in hums, MFL and soc sci in the universities that offer them.

Combined social sciences at Durham certainly is v competitive and has same entry requirements as HSPS at Cambridge.

What does “liberal arts” mean?

Genuinely curious. I’ve obviously heard the phrase in a US context but always thought it sounds vague. I did my degree in the UK decades ago.

What does a liberal arts degree equip you to do? What knowledge or skills would you have gained after three years?

I found this on Google

According to the Association of American Colleges and Universities, “4 out of 5 employers agree that all students should acquire broad knowledge in the liberal arts and sciences.” Having a liberal arts degree can potentially set you apart from other applicants when you begin looking for jobs after graduation.
A liberal arts degree includes the study of history, literature, writing, philosophy, sociology, psychology, creative arts and more. Liberal arts programs are designed to help you formulate compelling arguments, communicate well and solve problems.

OP where is she abroad? DD will be abroad in her third year too

@Piggywaspushed
You obviously don’t know any lawyers! They frequently do other degrees first and the destinations info for liberal arts includes law. It’s a perfectly valid degree to do and convert to law. DD did law after MFL degree. Very many of her friends didn’t do law either. She knew she wanted to be a barrister when she left school but you don’t need a law degree.

A MFL degree includes many of the above liberal arts elements at a good university but with the MFL element included. There isn’t any great evidence in the uk that liberal arts gives anyone an edge. I don’t think the degree is about knowledge that translates into a job. It’s more about how you have learnt, how you research, your critical thinking and other attributes. You won’t be an expert at anything. Some liberal arts degrees include some science too. They are hugely flexible - like a pick and mix degree.

Yes, I am fully aware. The question was about comparative entry requirements at that point. I am sure plenty of Lib Arts grads go into Law after their degree.

@Pumpkin354
DD looked at EsPS at UCL for 2010 entry. It’s not new. However she was undecided after a visit as the course/admissions tutor told her the vast majority of students on it were bilingual already: (she had a 1 to 1 with the tutor). It truly does give a mix of options but, as I sat waiting for DD, I saw the course list. The vast majority seemed to be international students too. As DD wanted two MFLs, it was not for her. I’ve no doubt it’s a great course though.

My concern would be this - there seems to be a big difference between universities as to what is taught on a LA course. The students are told they can build their own degree I believe. As an employer, it might not be too clear what skills a LA student has acquired.

DCs school used to recommend pupils took a look at UCL’s Liberal Arts and Science degree, apparently closely modelled on the US approach. There are others. I think that Tizers argument that Liberal Arts conveys no advantage over other humanities degrees is questionable. One big drawback of the UK system is its narrowness. Even very bright kids will have stopped studying maths at 16. Or the other way round, where STEM kids write very few essays after GCSE.

Ditto I don’t understand the problem with having bilinguals on a course. Our experience is that private schools are stuffed full of bilinguals. There are a huge number of expatriates living in the Home Counties. Leading up to GCSE DD had over 20 French bilinguals in her year. The schools approach as to allow them to take GCSE early freeing them up to take other languages. At A level there was less of an issue as other skills came into play and the non bilinguals could hold their own. Ditto German. At GCSE DD had one bilingual and two Nordic speakers in her class. Great when they came to revise for orals. I don’t understand why it would not be an advantage at university.

The problem was that no students took 2 languages on the course. Only one. They already had the language skills to ace what they chose anyway. If you were doing the course after A level MFLs you would be at a disadvantage anyway and the course tutor strongly advised against even trying to do 2 MFLs on the course. Therefore it suits bilingual Dc and not others who want 2 MFLs. DD wanted two.

There is no evidence that employers prefer liberal arts degrees, over say, History from a top university. Lots don’t have a stem component. Some do. So you tend to find essay type subjects such as philosophy, history. Sociology etc and not maths. There are differing approaches to what you can study but it’s not the IB translated into a degree.

Tizer , I was referring to the US style Liberal arts degrees, and gave the example of UCL.

You are always the expert on "employers" but I hope you can agree that there are strong arguments for the US system, and it is something presumably US and European employers are used to. (Europeans are often staggered at how narrow our sixth form education is.)

I personally think it is valuable for everyone to have at least some grounding in economics. Maths is often useful in careers like law. (Insurance and commercial law for example.) Ditto, I think my DC would have had a more rounded education if they had written a few more essays.

The bilingual thing is weird. The schools DC went to almost discouraged taking that language at A level - or if they did it was in your own time. Those interested in languages thus had the chance to acquire more languages. Those interested in other subjects still had the language as an additional skill, but did not "waste" an A level on something they already knew. A degree in a language you already speak does not add as much value as a degree in, say English, Law or Economics given you already have the language. And if you have a burning desire to study the literature you might be better off in the country where the language is spoken, as there will be more chance of depth as time will not need to be given over to language acquisition. By A level it was not uncommon for gifted linguists to start outperforming bilinguals. Presumably at Degree level this will be even more true, as analytical skills come into play.