View of Liberal Arts degree?

[Pumpkin354]

Hi, I've always understood that Liberal arts degrees are not as well respected as a pure humanities or social science degree, but it seems to be the way forward nowadays if you want to mix humanities and social sciences with a bit of language (without having to do language 50% or only history/politics for example).

A number of the top universities seem to offer some variation now - UCL does ESPS and arts & sciences BSAC, Durham does a combined social science or a liberal arts, Bristol offers liberal arts etc.

Any opinions? thanks

@TizerorFizz

Why do you consider a liberal arts degree path to be 'scattering learning'?

@thing47 - yes, the differences between US and British universities are familiar. I am Irish, and have a lot of relatives and friends who have either graduated from UK universities or are currently sending their offspring through.

Fwiw, the American university system developed from the Scottish tradition, traditionally a four year course of studies with a broad, prescribed range of areas covered in the first two years and specialisation in the last two years. The American model started to incorporate more natural and social sciences and the mathematical means of studying them during the 19th century. The breadth of the core curriculum in American high schools is also imported from Scotland.

The sustained and passionate interest element to subject choices seems to me a quirky sort of requirement that is out of line with what we know about brain development and also what we know about the modern world. I have a suspicion it will fall by the wayside ere long, thanks in part to increasingly mobile students, both leaving the UK for greener pastures abroad and also international students arriving in the UK who come from different secondary education systems (that means virtually all other secondary systems because the UK).

It's clear that the American LA model is making inroads all over Europe, a return to von Humboldt's ideal of a well informed human being and citizen (as opposed to a graduate who has mastered one specific area amd mode of reasoning and left others behind at 16). There must be some perceived advantage to it or the traffic would be going in the opposite direction.

...because the UK is an outlier in its insistence on early specialisation...

It’s doing lots of subjects without an organised approach. Scattergun. It can be on the periphery of research in departments, have no coherent curriculum and students may struggle to engage with depth of learning due to breadth. Students decide on their own components so it is inherently scattergun. I accept the best degrees in the uk are better organised but when students get a huge array of topics, are they really doing the best of them, or just a sample? Thus may or may not be high quality.

Do any LA degrees here qualify the holder to be a grad member of any stem institution? Even when some Stem is chosen? My guess is the stem element is not an accredited degree. Happy to be corrected though.

No criticism of social sciences from me, nor indeed of Liberal Arts (which I think sounds really interesting). I was purely addressing the point about getting onto a public health Masters course. To do that in the UK you would have to meet entry criteria, which in every instance I have seen includes wording similar to this:
'A minimum of a 2:1 honours degree in a subject related to health or health sciences'
The top courses such as those run by LSHTM will also take students who already possess a medical degree.

As with most Masters degrees, they would also consider people with extensive experience in the sector. So you could work in public health for a few years and then apply for a Masters in it if you felt it would benefit your career.

What you cannot do in the UK is go straight from a Liberal Arts or social sciences degree to an MSc in public health.

@thing47 at my DDs uni (Edinburgh) MPH is a common route from her social science undergraduate degree. Some people choose to specialise in health policy doing 50% modules in health areas during their last two years of their undergraduate degree.

My apologies @SandyIrvine I should have said England not the UK as there are clearly differences in approach. Scottish universities appear to be far less prescriptive in their entry requirements for their public health Masters courses and many will indeed accept social sciences graduates. In England the vast majority of universities require your undergraduate degree to be health-related, although there are one or two exceptions.

The Edinburgh Masters is extremely highly regarded, so that is an obvious destination for a social sciences graduate who wants to study public health.

@thing47. Interesting about the differences in areas. MPH is currently DDs Plan B (although this changes frequently). She fancies a move for masters but I will tell her to look carefully at who will have her without a health science degree.

Bristol University doesn't require science or health sandy

An upper second-class honours degree or international equivalent in a relevant degree: medicine, veterinary science, dentistry, pharmacy, biomedical and biological sciences, statistics, geography, politics, psychology, and social sciences. Preference will be given to candidates with excellent academic results in their undergraduate degree and demonstrated interest in public health through work experience, volunteering or research. Additionally, evidence of numeracy skills is required (for example, a minimum of GCSE mathematics at grade B or evidence of strong numeracy skills from an undergraduate degree).

www.bristol.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/2023/health-sciences/msc-public-health/

If I had my time again...

@Piggywaspushed that's useful that she's not so restricted in location. She should be clearer after her placement year whether MPH is a plan ( and will have done at least 3 modules in health sciences plus maybe her dissertation).

Yup there are exceptions, always worth a personal enquiry. One of DS's friends did MPH at Southampton and I'm pretty sure his first degree was human geography. I was probably over-stating the case a little as a reaction to a previous poster claiming that you could do MPH with a Liberal Arts BA – which I still think is vanishingly unlikely in England - so apologies to all those social scientists out there.

She fancies a move for masters

Personally I always think that's a good idea @SandyIrvine because to me it then looks like a proactive decision to carry on your studies rather than an I'm-not-sure-what-to-do-next-so-i-might-postpone-the-decision-for-a-year-by-doing-a-Masters decision! Also DD2 wanted a slight change of direction with her Masters so it made sense to change universities too.

That said, the Edinburgh MPH is so highly rated, that might outweigh the benefits of moving… Best of luck to her.

Didn't these degrees used to be called Combined Honours? I assumed it was just a name change.

No combined honours still exist - basically study half a degree in each subject.
Liberal Arts are generally far wider reaching, and more flexible in terms of choice of modules.

I notice Combined honours sometimes says 2 subjects or 3. So joint honours is similar! Gets confusing.

I think the Open University used offer something called an Open degree that included any cross-section of their modules. I guess that is a closer model than combined honours.

@LillianGish Thank you for sharing your ds's experience of the LANS course at Birmingham. I'm really glad to hear that he has embraced the depth of the course and found it to be flexible in terms of subject choice and combination. It also sounds as if there is quite a bit of cohesion amongst the LANS cohort, although they are studying in multiple faculties. DD loves chemistry, but probably not quite enough to want to do single honours, and she genuinely has great interest in a range of other science and arts subjects. It would have suited her much more to be doing Highers than A levels to be honest. She has an AAA offer from Birmingham for LANS, but a NatSci offer from Nottingham for A * AA. She loved the Nottingham campus when she visited and also really likes the course, but I have a feeling Birmingham might suit her even more. Hoping she'll be able to attend an offer holder's day in Birmingham soon. I might PM you a couple more questions about the LANS course if you don't mind, rather than derail this thread completely.

Do feel free to PM me @NiamCinnOir - DS is back in Birmingham now, but I'll do my best to answer any questions. The Birmingham campus is stunning so I would highly recommend a visit - Birmingham (as a place) often gets a bad press from those who don't know it, but I think it has a lot going for it and it's so friendly.