Where do we go from here?

[queentroutoftrouts]

My DD is predicted BBC in her As levels studying geography, business and english language, she has her heart set on going to university and is hoping to apply from september for next year.
I know she will probably not be eligible for a place at a russell group Uni as her grades are not high enough but what other options are there as far as non russell group uni's? Can she go to a non Russell group Uni and still be employable? She is trying her hardest to improve her grades but if she achieves her predicted grades which courses would be the best? Would she possibly be able to get a place on clearing at a better Uni with these grades? We have been looking at Greenwich and Nottingham Trent, what are the reputations of these Uni's like? She is interested in a business or geography degree but i am just trying to help her figure out which is the best way to go.
Sorry for all the questions, this is all so confusing, thanks.

University tuition fees are very high and I wouldn't encourage anyone to get into that much debt unless they thought the outcome was worth it.
There are other options post-A Level eg apprenticeships. There is a website called NotGoingToUni.

I don't know if it still applies but it used to be a trick to apply for joint honours as they tend to have lower asking grades. Also try looking around for the less obvious subjects: Geography is a school subject so people tend to apply for that but you could go for Environment or Sustainability.

Does she realise that without Chemistry she won't get on to Physical Geography courses?

Of course other universities are worth going to. DS is predicted high grades but his first choice is a non RG uni.

In the real world people aren't so hung up on RG. Has she looked at courses and chosen some good ones?

Don't let her be put off university just because she isn't predicted a string of A grades. Most students aren't yet still go on to university and have good lives. Yes there are other options but university is definitely one to thoroughly research.

It is difficult to trawl through all the university websites searching for courses suitable for her grades. Have you come across the book by Brian Heap, available from amazon, who lists every course at every university in grade order? It's also available online but possibly for a fee. It's very easy to look up geography for example and see all courses listed in grade order. She could then refine her searches quickly and see which universities would be appropriate. It's then much easier to do further research on a few.

Of course go to open days to get a feel for them, they will start up after Easter, look on the university websites for info. There are people who think if its not at the very top of the league tables a university is useless, don't get caught up in that too much.

Can she go to a non Russell group Uni and still be employable?

errrr ... most people don't go to RG universities. And most of them seem to have jobs.

From wikipedia - "As of August 2008, there were ninety-one universities in England,[1] out of a total of 109 in the United Kingdom. This excludes approximately 133 higher education institutions that have not been given the right to call themselves a "university" by the Privy Council (such as colleges of higher education)."

And there are 24 RG universities. So that's 218 institutions in the UK that she could attend after school.

I suppose I am just worried after recently looking online and reading threads on here about companies only wanting rg graduates and degrees being useless if they don't come from a certain institution. I'm a bit clueless as I never went to university so not sure of the ins and outs. Thanks for the advice I will definitely look up the book.

I'm a bit clueless as I never went to university so not sure of the ins and outs.

This is what MN is for. Keep asking the questions and we'll keep trying to answer them.
Usually the more precise and targetted the question, the better and more useful the answer.

It's just the nature of mumsnet, don't worry. There are plenty of people with very clever dc who are looking at the very top universities. Occasionally some of those people, deliberately or not, give the impression that anything less is a complete waste of time.

There's room for all and plenty of help so don't be put off. It's a vast area to research and absolutely fine to ask for advice on where to start.

For what it's worth I have one dc at a non rg university and another predicted top grades considering different places.

Have a look at this website OP

WhatUni

There are so many courses out there. I think it's more important that your dd chooses to study something that she is really interested in learning more about, than which university she goes it.

Pick a course rather than a uni and then see where it is offered. If she does want to go to uni she will need to pick 5 choices initially so it's best if she can look at those with different grade offers/UCAS points.

That way she will have something to fall back on if she doesn't achieve top grades. It takes the pressure off somewhat and will also take the edge off disappointment if she doesn't get her first choice.

I think the best thing for your daughter to do is open days. I didn't go to a RG uni ( yes I'm employed) but i looked around two and hated the atmosphere. The one i chose i loved and had the best 3 years of my life.
I had a friend who was forced by her mum to go to a RG uni to do a course she wasn't sure she wanted ( my mum tried this as well but I'm not so obedient) and she bloody hated it.

Not everyone has the same experience though.

Can she go to a non Russell group Uni and still be employable?

Oh no, of course not. 80% of the people who go to University are completely wasting their time and straight away end up on the dole for life. Really all those institutions should be torn down and turned into carparks. Their students should go be cleaners & factory workers instead. Much more employable.

Reading is non RG, is a "red brick' uni with a good reputation and excellent Geography department- does physical and non physical geography .

ragged OP is asking because she openly admits that she is 'clueless' about all this. Help her out, hey?

DS1 got AAB at A level he chose not to go to uni, but the place he had was at a non RG uni. He had offers from RGs but wasn't as keen on them.

I'm sat waiting for DS2 at a taster session for his chosen subject at a non RG uni. He is predicted A*AB this Summer. The course here had 1589 applicants for less than 160 places so he was very lucky to get an offer. He still has interviews at 3 more, 2 are RGs. For the course here 100% of graduates are employed within 6 months.

Nottingham Trent has a nice feel to it, it was one I went to a few years ago with DS1.

Ragged, I'm sorry if my comment offended you it wasn't meant to ridicule any body it was just the impression that I got from searching online it had not from my personal opinion. Missmuffet thanks I will check out reading.

I apologise that it sounded like a go at you, QueenToT; it's meant as a go at the whole MN culture that non-RG Unis and the degrees they offer are useless waste of space/time/money. I suppose you've been sucked in by that narrative too.

The snobbery on this place is unbelievable, sometimes and it's terrible that it makes people like OP & her DD feel like their only remaining prospects are bleak.

I am already immensely proud of her for how far she's come, she was at a failing school that was not failing when she started and has been converted into an Academy. Last year 30% of students had been excluded at least once between September and December, it has been a tough environment but she came out with 6 decent gcses which is an achievement considering one of her classes had no permenant teacher in her last year and relied on supply. The school had been through 3 different heads by the time she left. It was the only option in our area unfortunately so I am happy with whatever she chooses to do i am just trying to do the very best for her as I already feel like I've failed her.

Sorry to hear about the schools letting her down.

Nottingham Trent is well regarded as ex-polys go, has good industry links and good relationships with the other Unis in the area. It benefits from location (being so central in England, so close to so many diverse-economy cities but lower living costs than some other urban areas in UK), and good transport links. I think that it also has fairly good graduate employment stats, but you can check that yourself on the website. You are totally allowed to ask the admissions people very bluntly what kind of employment opportunities are there after any particular course.

Ironically, some of the least employable people I know came out of the so-called higher tier Unis because they were beautifully taught theory but not practical skills that employers look for.

I know less about Greenwich Uni, sorry, but I imagine the living costs would be a lot higher than East Midlands.

Don't feel that you've failed her, she has her whole future ahead and you're here asking for help and advice. That sounds pretty good to me.

Apart from the course she needs to think about whether she might like to be in the middle of a big city or whether she would prefer to be on a campus with everything in one place. Does she want to stay close to home or spread her wings and go far away.

There's lots to think about but the whole summer to research and visit, applications start in October but go on until next January so loads of time.

You and she have had it tough and don't give yourself a hard time. One of the brightest and most dedicated researchers I've interacted with studied at Nottingham Trent; another had a 1st degree from Portsmouth. They outshone their colleagues, some from RG universities & oxbridge. That's not to say those universities don't turn out good people (I'm oxbridge myself), but it's not where you come from but what you do with it that matters. If your DC really wants to study something and is enthusiastic and dedicated, and chooses a course that is taught by enthusiastic and dedicated people, she'll go far.
I can't comment reliably on recruiting procedures. I do believe from what I see (=hope) that employers are more interested in ability than who issued a degree certificate. And experience seems to matter more than the degree anyway - from volunteering in her interest area to vacation work of any kind - all helps. Very best of luck to you both.

I went to one of those unis wot used to be a poly. Got BEE at A Levels (admitted many moons ago), graduated with 2:1Hons, straight in an MSc, was employed in a relevant field prior to graduating the masters. I've never been out of employment since, and changed jobs twice now to 'upgrade'. I'm now a mid-level civil servant, looking at the next stage of my career. My colleague sitting next to me, doing the same job, on the same pay scale, has a first degree of the same grade from Durham and a masters from a RG uni. Before this job (which is more removed from my degrees) eyebrows went through the roof when I said which degree I had and from where because the rep of the course was phenomenal.

I would say look at the course she wants to do, not the uni. Investigate which unis offer the best courses from an industry perspective, what do graduates end up doing? What are the employability levels of graduates?

Once you're in the 'real world' these are the things that matter.

One thing about Higher Apprenticeships, since they were mentioned.
I looked for DS, but problem is that most are still badly paid, some still want As at A-level, and not many near where we lived. Most are basically in the sectors of service provision, manufacturing, management & sales, which might not suit your DD's interests. Very good for kids who are business minded & too (emotionally) mature to go to Uni, though.

More info on HAs here.

Nottingham Trent is vv close to home, she would prefer to move away but if it is better for her course then she will stay, she is attracted to Greenwich due to the location.

Sunderland and Northumbria are very good up here in t'North. Cost of living is low, both are in the city centres and have a great student lifestyle :)

League table on geography degrees. Greenwich is pretty much in the middle on student satisfaction & graduate prospects, fairly respectable!

Thanks ragged that is very helpful.