Black Widow (full spoilers discussion thread)

[MyFloorIsLava]

I'm just back from seeing Black Widow I can't objectively review it, I love Scarlet Johanssen so much, I've waited so long to see it and I generally love the cinema so much that I'm just completely thrilled to have seen it and am at peace with life

Great action, some surprisingly sweet and tender moments. Think Florence Pugh is a complete scene stealer, she was fantastic, possibly even better than my beloved Scarlet and there is an end credit scene.

Happy to discuss in more detail when its properly out!

Signing in…… I’ll be seeing it next week 🤞🏻

Place marking! Hoping to buy/watch it this weekend.

Very enjoyable. I wanted more fight scenes with the Taskmaster but everything else hit the right notes. An Avenger cameo would have helped tie things in to the Marvel world a bit more, but otherwise the cast was great.

Oh the end credits....Marvel you emotionally manipulative utter bastards.

But yes, enjoyable all round.

I loved it. It wasn't at all what I expected, it reminded me of the spy series that used to be repeated on TV a lot - Mission Impossible, the Man from UNCLE etc rather than a superhero film but it was excellent.

The post credit left me sad though, during the film I'd temporarily forgotten about her now being dead in the MCU as I was absorbed in it and it brought that sadness back, in fact it was more poignant than in Endgame as she'd refound family and a place in the world here so she had more to lose.

SJ and Florence Pugh were fantastic. Didn't think much of Ray Winston, I felt there must have been a lot of actors who could have done the part better and with a better Russian accent.

We loved it,. Though DS did think there was too much girl power, Tbh I do sort of agree that having more of a tie in to other avengers would have helped, it could have easily been done, a flashback to her and Clint in Budapest, show the locked up Avengers etc. With so many references they could have shown some, they wouldn't have even had to talk:)
Thought taskmaster was excellent, loved the mimic thing and the kids loved when she did black panther stance.
Good kick off to phase 4.

I know what you mean @Purpletomato. I'm still rather annoyed at it, as soon as they said they're off to Vormir in Endgame I thought well I know who they're gonna give the bump to then.

I was ok with Tony Stark, he was at a point where his story was over and it was ok. Widow had more left I felt, and when they had the A Force moment it was a extra layer of crap that she should have been there but wasn't.

Loved it! I thought there would be more about what happened in the Red Room; but it was really good. Loved the dynamic between the 'family'. Agree the Ray Winston wasn't the best choice for the role, & his accent kept slipping which was distracting.
Another Avenger cameo would have been great, but I kind of understand why they didnt. It's a bit like Spider-Man in that sense.
Nice that it was Natasha who brought the Avenger family back together. She must have gone off to kind Steve & Bucky & then on to the prison.
Ending was sad - very poignant when you remember the scene in Endgame after Voromir, when Steve asks if Natasha had any family, & they didn't know she did 😭
I guess it's also setting up both the Hawkeye tv series & possibly the Young Avengers?

I bloody loved that. The only thing I wished there was more of was the very start when the showed the clips of what happens in the red room. I think more could have been made of that.

Oh the end credits....Marvel you emotionally manipulative utter bastards
Couldn’t have summed it up better 😰😰

It was so good. I was kind of disappointed that she finally got her own film and Florence Pugh was in my opinion, an equal character and stole the scene several times.

How has she ended up on the other side again though?!

Just come out of the cinema - we are not football people, and going during the final we had the entire screen to ourselves!!!

LOVED IT!!!

Some heartbreaking lines about the reality of the red room. Elena driving home to Alexie the point about their forced sterilisation. Dreykov’s line about “the only natural resource the world has too much of - girls”. There is some deep feminist analysis to be made from this movie! The sisterly solidarity at the end was beautiful. Definite potential for a spin-off of Rachel Weisz tracking down remaining sleeper Widows and liberating them.

Yes Ray Winstone’s accent was all over the place, also I was irked by Melina and Natasha changing very complex hairstyles in the blink of an eye - it takes ages to do/undo complex braids like that!!! And what is with the cliché of all Russian women braiding their hair anyway.

But I can forgive those quirks. It was great to see a full length Black Widow lead film, just sad that there won’t be more.

I think we were supposed to see these end credits before FATWS, so Valentina would have made more sense then. I also guess that Elena, Valentina (and therefore possibly John Walker as well?) are going to turn up in Hawkeye. How has Elena ended up with Valentina though?

I liked the allusions to Natasha and Clint spending 10 days hiding out in Budapest. And yes, she is off at the end with her newly bleached bob to go pick up Steve and break into the Raft.

Oh, and minor detail but Dreykov was pictures with Tony Blair and Bill Clinton in the opening credits (was that Tori Amos’ version of Smells Like Teen Spirit btw?) - so that means Clinton and Blair are canonised in MCU!!!

I wish we’d got a flash of the SHIELD agent’s faces at the start - could have included Coulson and Sitwell!!! Or the one that looks like Geena Davis.

Oh my Head Canon is that Coulson was definitely in that SHIELD vehicle!

I’ve been wondering today about what else happened between Civil War and Infinity War. This film was immediately after Civil War and spanned maybe 2 weeks max? So there is still 2 years until Infinity War, and 7 years until Natasha’s death I think? Did she stay in closer touch with Elena, Melina and Alexei in that time? Did they meet up? She clearly didn’t tell any of the other Avengers about them though. I wonder why not.

Why was Alexei talking about fighting Captain America? Fair enough in the prison I thought he was bullshitting (btw fark he messed that dude’s wrist up!!!), but then he asked Natasha about him as if he clearly believed he had fought Cap. Was that Isiah Bradley maybe?

I have wondered a lot of these things. We don't know when he became the Red Guardian in the MCU, do we? So maybe he fought Steve Rogers early on- but the USA and USSR were on the same side in WW2, so why would they have fought? He did think he'd fought (a) Cap in the 80s, so maybe it was Bradley, or another ill advised, quickly hushed up Captain America.

I presume Nat didn't talk about her family. She doesn't strike me as one who was up for sharing confidences and this particular one is tough to explain. Also it depends on how long it took her to find Steve Rogers. Oh and I'm sort of assuming at this point that Yelena etc got snapped. In Endgame Nat certainly looks like someone who lost absolutely everything.

Ray Winstone was a bit crap, imo. But I'm not a fan. Could they not have cast an actual Russian?

The end credit scene was a real punch to the gut. I'd sort of, not forgotten she had died but, sort of shelved the knowledge? Poor Yelena. She had clearly spent years following Nat (she watched her fighting moves, read the magazines she was in), yearning to be in a family again, and just as she got her family back she gets turned to dust, blips back and her sister is gone.

Loved the ‘poser’ comment 😂

I saw this as DS wanted to go and DH is no longer here to take him to Marvel films. I bloody loved it, from the amazing opening credits, the funny one liners, the fight scenes, all excellent.

I’m suffering a bit from Marvel fatigue but I loved this one - Florence Pugh stole the show and she actually made me cry!

@LemonViolet I'm sure you've already looked this up, but the subtitles on Disney+ say that the Smells Like Teen Spirit cover is by Think Up Anger ft. Malia J. Yes I am at home watching the film for the third time in a week.

Also for anyone who enjoyed the undercover Russian spy element at the beginning, if you haven't seen the excellent TV series The Americans (all episodes on Disney+) then do watch it.

Though DS did think there was too much girl power

Seriously?

50% of the world is female. Every other Marvel film has more than enough 'boy power', I think we can give girls this one film

Just seen it today and really enjoyed it. Both Scaett and Florence were excellent in their respective roles.

I thunk I'll have to watch the other Avenger films to get all the references, though I think it still worked as a Stan alone film.

The young Natasha looked really familiar, and after googling I see that she is Milla Jovovixh's daughter. That's who she reminded me of. Milla Jovivich in The Fifth Element.

Many of my friends did not like it, but I looked with pleasure. Disney was clearly trying to experiment and that's a good thing.

I went with 9yo DS - we are currently doing Marvel in timeline order and this fit in perfectly.

We both bloody loved it and DS has declared it his current favourite MCU film. Not too much girl power for him apparently.

This film was great but came too late! Not just because of covid delay but giving Nat her back story. It's also completely shit they already killed the character off! She "sacrificed" herself for Cliff's family yet she actually had her own family, as they've just shown in this film. Marvel did NOT do right by Black Widow.