Don't know how to help my brother

[BG2015]

My brother is in his mid 50's. He's alienated himself from all of us (my parents, myself and my younger brother). None of us have seen him for nearly 3 years despite all of us ringing, emailing, sending letters and banging on his door. He's also ignored all of his friends.

We think this has spiralled because of debt, embarrassment and shame . He has always been the black sheep and looking back has probably always suffered with his mental health.

An old friend of his had recently made a breakthrough and has been meeting up with him for coffee. It's all very much on my brothers terms and up until this weekend the friend hasn't been inside his house. He missed his bus home on Saturday so stayed over. The friend has rung me tonight to say that the house is in a terrible state. Bags of rubbish, no clean cups, a box of unopened letters by the door. He said he got home on Sunday and put his clothes straight in the washer. He says someone needs to intervene and he's worried about him.

But none of us can make contact with him, he refuses to engage with any of us and I just don't know what to do. My parents are in their 80's and I just don't know whether to even tell them about this new development.

Is there nothing I can do 🤷‍♀️ I'm at a total,loss.

I messaged him when I got home and told him I was glad to see him, sad that we'd parted on difficult terms but would he please consider meeting again.

Ive since messaged again and said I know I said some things he didn't want to hear but I was not going to sit with him for 2 hours with him just talking AT me. I urged him to go and see his GP, reiterated that alienating himself in this continuing cycle wasn't helping him and said I wanted to meet up again if he felt able.

I shall just keep messaging him now.

I did see my old funny, clever brother through some of the meeting which gave me hope. He was clean although unkempt.

He is totally absorbed in himself, he asked nothing about our parents (who are now 83 & 81) which made me so sad. He even mocked my poor mums attempts to make contact. She sent some bedding and a care box with nice coffee, biscuits in it with his friend a few months ago. She was just trying to help by sending items to make his life more comfortable . His mental health sees him only being able to think of himself unfortunately.

I won't give up now he's initiated this first contact.

This is so incredibly sad to read. We have two family members similar to this but things haven't got this bad. I think you need to understand that your brother is very very unwell and his behaviour is clearly an indication that he's incredibly lonely and isolated. His talking at you all the time is an indication of how isolated he his and his lack of social skills now. He sounds deeply depressed.

Its great he's joined a doctors surgery now and perhaps he will come to the point that he will go and speak to them. Sadly a lot of people in his position won't engage with others and isolate themselves. Also don't see things clearly or understand the true motives of those who try to help them.

You are being an amazing, loving sister trying to do your best. Really, hats off to you. I can't say that the relatives I am thinking of have that support or care from their siblings. You are trying your best to help and support him.

In my view the best thing you can do is NOT JUDGE. Don't press advice on him or lecture him or get annoyed. Accept him where he is, hard as that is. Gently encourage him, focus on what he is trying to do and praise him. Listen to his misery and give him a hug. Just be there for him and gradually he may let you in. He might find the strength to go to the GP and take steps to improve his life in very small ways . Then things might snowball. Or not. He may never improve or find a way to function better. Just love him anyway. At the same time think of what you can do to support yourself and have boundaries or it will consume your energy and positivity. Also, focus on the flashes where you see the person he used to be. He's still in there.

Take care of yourself. This is a hard situation to be in.

@Raisondeetre thank you for your very kind words- they mean a lot. He did accuse me of judging him, which I have tried hard not to do. It's so frustrating when someone believes they have been ignored & abandoned but much of that is through their own doing and reluctance to let people in.

I hope he does seek help.

Also wanted to say depressed and lonely people without friends and mental health issues are often very selfish. It just comes with the territory. Don't take it personally.

He is so unwell. I would just keep plugging away at him. Keep it light. Bits of random info about you and your family etc.

I echo what @Raisondeetre says. When someone is so depressed/struggling with their MH it really is all about them and they are selfish in their thoughts and actions. They cannot see a way out. So yes, sadly you do have to let him talk AT you, as hard as that might be. As much as you may want to scream ‘what about the parents?’ This is all about him. If he feels wronged (rightly or wrongly) that’s his perception of the situation. That’s his feelings and emotions around that. To give a counter view, to try and explain how it really is/was, is then just minimising his feelings, his emotions. You have to be the sponge and listen without chipping in, sharing your thoughts, giving a balanced view. If you do, he will see that as judgement and that you are not truly listening to him.

what about your other DB or SIL? Would they meet with him? Or would he even want to? It’s about patience and time. Or what about another family member or friend? Not sure if you’d mentioned a partner, so apologies, but wonder if he’d meet and off load to someone else. If he sees you as being judgemental (and I’m certainly not saying you were) what about someone he may perceive as more neutral?

Must be hard seeing him go through this but you have to hold off sharing your own take on things, and the ‘but what about us’ or trying to give a more balanced view on anything that may have lead to this. This is his perception and he’s in a dark place so won’t be able to see or understand anything outside of himself.

hold on tight, it’s great that there has been contact. Yes keep in touch but equally try not to overload him. Don’t ask too many questions of him, he may see that as a pressure and more judgment 💐

Also echoing this. There's a lot of parallels with my brother who also has severe and ongoing mental health issues. It's very, very difficult to deal with as frankly although his problems are real and not his fault, that doesn't stop him being incredibly difficult to deal with at times (he also veers wildly from being entirely off the radar to suddenly demanding all sorts of support and input both financial, practical and emotional from the family).

I do find it frustrating that there is a narrative now that mental health problems can be solved just with 'support' and a 'chat' and also that there's lots of services and professional help to access, that you just have to ask. Of course it's brilliant that everyone is so much more accepting of mental health now and open to supporting their friends and relatives rather than stigmatizing, but the trouble is that's a lot easier in the abstract than in real life. I can find that when talking to friends or online about my brother people act as though I should just have sorted things out for him already and are shocked to hear for instance that I know his house is in a really bad state but I'm not immediately rushing over to sort it out for him, when that's really only the tip of the iceberg and (a) he'd have to let me in to sort it which is far from a guarantee (b) the state of the house is a symptom of his mental illness not the cause, without addressing the cause blitzing his house may do more harm than good (c) I have a life of my own, it's been a long, long haul sorting his life and house out for him many, many times over the years, with very little by way of gratitude from him, in fact he currently is saying I'm bossy and interfering in his life and should just leave him be 😨 but I know in a few months it'll be that I've abandoned him and don't care! Not that I need gratitude per se but it would be good if I'm going to invest hours more time and emotional energy and money to have some reward in terms of him making sustained progress towards happiness and functionality rather than going around and around the same depressing and depressive spiral...

The reality is that for prolonged and serious depression say, or bipolar or personality disorders, it's really very difficult to help as a relative, you absolutely cannot fix this kind of condition with love and support and chats, and it's not reasonable to expect you to be his savior and there isn't any magic answers you're missing. The GP may be able to offer antidepressants or CBT but if these don't help or your brother isn't willing to engage then there isn't much more you can do. 111 won't speak to a relative about someone else's mental health, crisis team won't care unless they're an immediate suicide risk or an immediate risk to others, there really aren't a whole heap of 'intermediate' type services for people who are too unwell for standard first line type support but not unwell enough to need crisis team or hospitalisation, even if you are willing to pay privately, and generally such things as there are such as private therapy need the person to make a real sustained effort to engage with them, and also usually require either spending money or the person themselves being prepared to endless badger and harry the NHS - two things seriously long term unwell people usually can't do! It would be lovely just to pick up the phone and have support spring into action as some people seem to imagine can happen but it's very much not my reality...

I just wanted to add some nuance to your post. I don't disagree with you as such, there's very little benefit to trying to argue with or change the mind of someone who has a fixed and selfish view of events, you'll likely just exhaust and frustrate yourself, potentially damage your relationship with your relative and achieve no change. Many times over the years I've tried to get my brother to behave more kindly to our Mum who has a lot of problems of her own - their relationship is even more strained than ours, I've tried getting angry with him, tried explaining things from her perspective, tried getting them in a room together to talk it through , tried assigning him small practical tasks to help her - nothing has really worked. Sometimes he's tearful and full of shame about being a bad son, sometimes he's angry with her or with me about our perceived or real failings, sometimes he simply completely disengages. Either way net result is the same, while he can't really look after or manage himself he definitely can't manage being a functional family member and things go more smoothly all round if we don't push it.

But the point I was trying to make was, none of that means OP is in any way obliged to let him rant at her for hours on end. Accepting that this is the maximum he can give to the relationship is not the same as having to sponge it up forever with no boundaries or means of saying enough. OP isn't a professional and is entitled to her own emotional reactions to hurtful or upsetting things said by her brother even if it's best not to argue back with him. OP if you say you can't or won't meet up with him for the time being, that you will do phone calls only or emails only or short visits only, that is completely fair and allowable. Please, please do not feel that if in anyway you are less than the absolute perfect sister, counsellor and personal assistant rolled into one angelic being you've somehow failed and are now responsible for his illness and any negative consequences. Trust me I've walked that thought path and it is not a productive or happy one.

Personally I have quite tight boundaries with my brother now particularly around money and the extent of emotional support I can offer, I'm still close with him and involved in his life but there's some things I just won't do or won't engage with him about and I definitely would not let him rant at me for 2 hours in a pub no matter how unwell he is. He finds this annoying and upsetting sometimes as he's entitled to but the alternative is my last nerve shreds and then I'll be no use to him or anyone else...

Brilliant post and hits the nail on the head .

Thank you all. Your posts are so spot on and so, so helpful.

I feel like I want to 'fix him' but I know that's just not the reality here.

He has a difficult relationship with my/ our youngest brother - so that's a no go. My sister in law ( who works in probation) and did see him those few months ago has urged him to sort out a gp and sent him various links to support services, she's messaged him a few times but recieved no response so has pulled back slightly ( she works fulltime and has children) but my brother criticised her and her lack of continued contact 🤷‍♀️ - its as though he wants everyone to do all the work but not respond back. I suppose typical of his behaviour now and part of his illness.

My poor parents don't understand what they have done, where things have gone wrong. They just go on and on about how they've supported him from childhood through to adult hood etc etc etc..... they are struggling to see it's not really about them.

We do have a cousin who works for the Samaritans (I don't think my brother knows this) who could maybe get involved but I'm not sure. It would be down to him.

@NoctuaAthene complete get your point and maybe ‘have to’ was wrong choice of words, so apologies. Yes totally agree though, it’s about personal boundaries.

OP it’s unsurprising that your parents don’t really get it. A mixture of age and them having tried their best as parents. We don’t get a handbook of instructions when we have kids do we? We just try our best as I’m sure your parents have done too.

It’s tricky if you have a ‘fixing’ nature when someone doesn’t engage….either due to stubbornness or illness. Try not to dwell too much, you’ve opened the door of communication. DB does need to also need to be open to the support. I wonder if he’s getting there slowly? We can only hope.

Would you perhaps contact the cousin? If it were me, I’d be asking them first before mentioning to DB…..if the cousin says no but DB thinks they’re an option it could feel like a withdrawal of support again. Not saying that there has been but it sounds as though that’s how he’s perceived SIL, for example, stepping back when he’s not engaged.

My brother replied to my messages:

meet again? so you can give me another panic attack and walk away? Thats 2 out of 2 now... incredible work! Or did you not finishing your judgement and want another crack? You know it's pretty incredible how someone can ask and ask and ask and beg to meet up and then... what happens? You really think I want to see you ever again now? So you can tell me how you 'feel'? Your eye rolling told be everything I needed to know. I didn't really expect you to understand anything, but I was hoping for a tiny bit of empathy.... and since all I heard was that everything was my fault I think I'll leave it... you think you care... but you really dont. I just need to look at the evidence. Oh and I went through my box of mail finally looking for all the letters of love and sympathy... 2 scraps of paper, a free birthday card and some messages on mail I didn't want was the haul, but that was mostly complaining about dropping it off..... and the 'banging on the door'? Yeah, I've seen Mum drop mail off why my own eyes... not a single knock, just more junk through the letterbox... Thanks for contributing to the worst week of this year, and you weren't even the worst part... If anyone asks why I don't contact my family you can point to yourself... My parting gift, more evidence of what a cunt I am... not that you care

Im holding onto the fact that he has at least replied. I don't know where I go from here 🤷‍♀️

Hmmm, as you say, at least he’s replied. Has there been any more contact since?
what do you want to do? Or what do you feel able to do? It’s ok to step away. He does sound very hurt by whatever has happened in the past.

No nothing at all. He hasn't even read my message as far as I can tell.

I don't know what I want to happen. I feel like whatever I do it won't be up to his standard. Nothing will be good enough. It's as though he's testing us to see how high we will all jump but we never jump quite high enough for him.

I sent him one last message saying I was sorry that he felt I'd made things worse, that I loved him and would always be here if he changed his mind and wanted to meet up again.

I will just leave it now. It made me quite stressed and the skin condition I have flared up again.

I just hope he goes to his GP.

Thanks for checking in. 🌺

I'm sorry things are still so tough OP. It's really hard when everything you try gets thrown back at you and nothing you can offer is ever good enough. The reality is chronic mental illness can't be fixed just through love and support, no matter how hard you try, but obviously for the sufferer it can be cognitively easier to blame people around them and lash out at those closest to them than do the very hard thing of looking inwards and/or making the proactive effort to get better (which is really, really difficult given the difficulties accessing professional support, how hard it is to live with mental illness day to day, all the stuff you know). Understanding that that's what's going on doesn't make it easy or pleasant to live with as the loved one though I know...the guilt and sadness and anger and stress and all the feelings I'm afraid do tend to persist...

I think your response was perfect, sometimes the very best you can do is remain detached but loving and hope things get better

if you leave it then I doubt he will get back to you (speaking from experience as someone who pushes loved ones away when I am mentally ill)

@Outofsteamnow thanks for your perspective. I did think this too. I will send him an odd message but it's all been very stressful.