Can we compare waiting time for therapy please?

[PaulieP]

I keep seeing lots of mentions within the NHS websites of some '18 week standard'. Apparently we're supposed to get seen in 18 weeks?

My mental health went downhill from around 2017. By early 2019, it was bad enough to go to the GP about it. Therapy seemed the best route and we all agreed.

That therapy eventually happened in the middle of 2022 by which time things were much worse. My line of work shut down entirely for nearly 18 months due to covid. I managed to get a min wage job for the interim but could not pay my bills so got into a hole I'm still in.

The limited therapy sessions just made everything a lot worse but they have to finish when they finish. I understand. That was January 2023.

I have been re-referred but no idea as to any timescale.

Is this other peoples' experience too? My mental health is now so bad that I can't help but think the amount of work needed just to get back where I was in 2019 is more than I'll get. I can't shake the feeling the NHS would just prefer if I went away.

Since this is MN, no I can't afford to go private. I can't even afford to eat all the time.

I waited almost 3 years due to COVID.
Had therapy and was referred by the therapist - who said tte list is 12-18 months.
So back to waiting again.
There are simply not enough staff or resources in the NHS

Thanks for the reply. I think it probably is time to forget all about it. My latest information is that I have been moved to another list from the list I was already on. I'm guessing that isn't going to speed things up in any way.

Things aren't in a position to continue and no change in sight.

ETA can anyone here explain the 18 week standard? There's nothing that explicitly says it doesn't apply to mental health. If the standard doesn't really exist then remove the website perhaps?

Hi @PaulieP is this a talking therapies service (IAPT) service you're talking about? I work in one so can maybe explain some of the stuff?

i believe i'm in the queue for some form of trauma therapy. I don't know if that comes under iapt or not. I looked at the last communication I've had and it didn't use that acronym. any insight you have is gratefully received

I worked in one for the last 15 years but left because of issues with the model. It was called IAPT but now it’s nhs talking therapies. It’s the primary care therapy provider so likely what you’re waiting for unless you’re under a secondary care service (cmht) in which case it’s their version is called psychological therapies service.

in most places the waiting list for ‘high intensity’ CBT/CfD/DIT/EMDR is around 12-18 months for around 12-20 sessions. Less for the ‘low intensity’ options around 6-8 sessions.

If it’s not a statutory service provider you’re waiting for it could be a third sector one, the waiting lists again are around 1-2 years in the ones I have links to.
basically any free therapy has long waiting lists and has done for years.

Thanks for the replies, Charlotte. It does seem my waits are longer than some. I am in London so have to expect that.

With a system that watches people get worse but is unable to do anything, I'm not surprised you got out of there.

Can you afford to see a therapist privately?

You would be given more choice and therefore could choose one that you wanted to work with, rather than having no choice.

Some people don’t think twice about paying for good hair/nails etc. good mental health is more important.

I'd second paying privately some therapists will do a sliding scale to what you can afford. Unfortunately the services are overwhelmed and often just not specialised enough for many people.

Even if you could only afford one session a month youd be seen faster than waiting for nhs.I find lots of podcasts can be really helpful too so worth a look.

I did explain why private isn't an option at the bottom of my first post. Not sure why you didn't see it.

Right now I eat once a day most days as all my money goes on bills plus more I don't have. But am loving the comment about hair and nails. You're clearly on a different planet to me.

And I'm none the wiser about the mythical 18 week standard. Look up 'NHS mental health waiting times' on the internet and that's what you get

That sounds awful OP. Are you definitely getting all the benefits you are entitled to as no one should be unable to eat regularly in this country?

I'm under secondary care as considered too complex for primary care. I haven't seen a therapist face to face since December. Staff shortages apparently. Four times they've said I'll get an appt since April and not done it. Four weeks ago I got a phone call and had to talk about how everything was and was told they'd take it to MDT and get back to me. Still nothing. And they know I'm a single parent to a 4YO, have naff all support and that I started self harming again a couple of months ago.

It's an absolute mess.

It could be worth asking locally if anyone is aware of any charities that offer MH support. There is one near me that charges what you can afford - for a fair few people this is nothing, or £5 every third time sort of a thing. The waits for that are about six months, but it might be worth seeing if you have something similar and could put your name down. I can't use them as I'm under secondary care still, I'd have to discharge myself which doesn't feel right.

I believe I get everything I'm entitled to. My claims were made with heavy assistance from the fantastic welfare team at the NHS psych hospital. Can't overstate how great they were.

The issue is that I live in a very small flat that I own. If you aren't renting then no housing costs are paid. Like most people, my housing costs are my biggest bills by a large margin but that's the way it goes. Back when I used to have to attend the Job Centre, they always wondered why I got £1 per month UC and it must be wrong. When I explained I owned the reaction was always the same: "Ohhhh...." which I interpreted as 'ohhh you're fucked'.

Thanks for the reply and useful suggestion. I think I'm also in secondary care. The trust have given me many leaftlets in my time with 'useful' third party contacts - you've probably had the same - which is why I feel they'd just prefer it if I went away.

I did engage with The Listening Place for quite some time last year. It started well but seemed to break down through their own internal politicking.

I want to see my GP (always a locum) to kick this along the road which is why I was asking about other experiences.

I'm about to start CBT (with a counsellor, by phone), so I think I'm a 'low level' need. I spoke to my GP in late August, and have an appointment for early October. I'm in East Anglia. It would have been an even shorter waiting time if I'd taken the earliest assessment opportunity, and been able to have appointments on Wednesdays (when I work). Maybe I'm accessing something different to others on this thread, but I could have had my first appointment within 4 weeks of first seeking help.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/nhsscotland-performance-against-ldp-standards/pages/18-weeks-referral-to-treatment/

The 18 weeks from referral to treatment is a target.

My experience has been that these targets are met a lot less frequently than they used to be, particularly after the pandemic.

Thanks for the reply and I'm sorry to hear you're also in a similar situation.

Yes staffing is probably the main issue - I haven't been given any reason for any of this. I did learn that there isn't the funding. The NHS (around here at least) employs very few therapists on very few hours a week. I only found that out by being very nosy and reading professional health journals.

The NHS has yet to publish data for adults in the mental health care system so officially there is no metric on whether it's good or bad. No metric means no funding review and everything stays the same. They did promise to release the figures but then didn't.

You can tell I've really dug into this...

I think I waited around 16 mo for high intensity. It’s currently ongoing and very helpful. I’m in London. I was not very flexible with times due to my job so that may have slowed things down.

My GP did try to speed things along but I am not sure it helps. The service would also call me regularly (every month or so) and would do a check in which was nice- it was quite a long check in and they were always very helpful, kind and suggesting resources etc. They would update me with the wait times.

It has been worth that wait. It would have been so expensive to self fund. I am having 16+ sessions of 90 mins.

Previously I did an online CBT programme Silver Cloud with support and did get something from that.

I really hope that you can get seen soon.

Also in London but my experience is very different. Are you south of the river? SLAM?

I've had check in phone calls twice since 2019. The limited therapy I had so far took 34 months to happen and I've been waiting about 20 months since then. I have been entirely flexible throughout so I can't blame any delay on that.

It's good to hear the system is working for someone and I'm genuinely glad for you... but disheartening for me. It's six years in January FFS

For all those mentioning CBT - yes there's a lot of that available it seems. I got some CBT about 8 months in. Since I was looking for trauma therapy I was surprised as was the (trainee) therapist. She quickly gave her opinion that CBT was not appropriate for me and that was that.

Depending on where you are in London, there are some free or low-cost therapy services. Unfortunately, most also have waiting lists and some charge a lot even at "low cost," but if you can find any near you it's always worth getting your name on the list
Your local Mind might have a therapy service, or sometimes there are services in local charities targeted at people of a specific age, ethnicity, or with certain disabilities, for example. There should be a local borough "hub" that refers residents to services in the area.

CBT certainly is suitable for trauma, it’s called trauma focused CBT, it’s and works best for single event ptsd but you can use it for multiple/complex trauma if you have more capacity for longer term work.

a lot of iapt/talking therapies won’t offer high intensity therapy like that to people for many reasons, could be that they might struggle with the short term (12-20 sessions is considered short term) nature of it, could be that although they have experienced trauma they don’t meet the criteria for PTSD closely enough and their symptoms don’t match what the protocol is designed to treat, it’s quite specific. Could be that they’re ’too complex’ eg social care issues, ongoing chaotic lifestyle, suicidal ideation and self harm etc.

Nearly five years.