How long can people live like this?

[HoppityBun]

This might seem callous, but I don’t mean it to be. The thing is, I’m bewildered about how long elderly, bedbound people in their 90s can continue to exist. I’ve got several relatives in this situation. One I know wishes that she had died several years ago: I know because she says so when her children aren’t around. One of the other others, actually it’s hard to tell but she focusses on the next meal, or tea, or sweets, and seems ok. Has a few UTIs and once had a very low breathing rate but was revived. The other, seems to be ok, but at other time seems to be sad and has twice commented that they “just wanted to be all over“.

They’re all in nursing homes, all mid 90s, all bedbound and I just don’t understand how it is that they continue to survive when they are not eating much and not getting any exercise. This has been going on since 2020 for one of them and 2-4 years for the other two.

It seems extraordinary to me and, to be honest, it’s getting family members down. I suppose it’s anticipatory grief, which we’re all warned against.

I’d be interested to know because the way things are going they could all live for another five or six years it seems to me. Gradually declining and getting thinner and paler, but just sort of existing. I don’t want that for myself and I hardly recognise them when I look at them, for the people they used to be. Has anybody else come across this? It’s particularly extraordinary because they’ve lived lives that I would have thought are contrary to all we told about healthy living. Granted, none of them ever drank or smoked, but none took any exercise that I remember. Yet still they are here.

How can the body go on existing?

I think that when you're at that stage where extremely few external physical demands are placed on the body beyond new infection, it really is a case of continuing to exist until that last infection occurs

Do they have respect forms in place? Have conversations been had around refusing antibiotics and hospital transfers in the event of a new infection? Are they refusing annual vaccinations?

Yes. Mum lived to 91. Her last few years weren’t great. She wanted to die and her last words at the care home to the nursing staff was please just let me go, I want to die.

We seem to celebrate long lives but in the vast majority of cases it’s either families members normally women propping up these very elderly people or them just living from day to day.

It’s truly awful and I think we need a robust discussion about assisted dying yet it’s been voted down again and unlikely to come back. Shame on the people who voted against it. They clearly have never experienced an elderly relative.

both parents had respect forms but hospitals and doctors will often throw everything at these elderly people because they don’t want to be accused of ignoring them.

So we just plod on.

Yes, I have a friend who has been barely alive for nine years now. She’s immobile, doubly incontinent, can’t speak, rarely opens her eyes, eats puréed foods. It’s intolerable for her family and it really shouldn’t be happening.

Good questions.

I know that one of them has a DNR. The other two I don’t know, but I’ll ask: though I’m not next of kin for two of them. I think that there have been no discussions about refusing antibiotics and hospital transfers. To be honest, I have not thought to ask about vaccinations.

I’m a bit wary about the antibiotic business because a couple of them have had UTIs and they were definitely in pain and hallucinating and very uncomfortable and miserable. I don’t want that for any of these relatives.

I’m well aware that pneumonia was said to be the old man’s friend. And that must’ve been in days before antibiotics. Yet I do not want their last days to be pain and suffering.

So I’m asking for the impossible, aren’t I?

I should add, having read the comments below, that the youngest is 94 and the oldest is 97. I just can’t see circumstances changing for any of them.

I think these elderly people are going to bankrupt the country. I don’t mean to upset anyone but it should be quality of life rather than quantity.

Yes. No one wants to say this. Both parents funded their own care and clearly others who weren’t getting the same funding from local authorities. Someone is making an awful lot of money out of all of this and effectively bankrupting the country.

They deserve to live their lives out just because the thought (or cost) of their death is upsetting to others.

It is tragic. My DMIL was lovely but absolutely hated the last four or five years of her life. She was always in discomfort and often in pain from arthritis, and had asked me to take her to Dignitas when she had had enough, but then developed vascular dementia after a heart attack, and could not make that choice. She self-funded four years in care homes and was desperately miserable. It was awful for everyone who loved her.

Of course, but when life is a burden? When there ceases to be any enjoyment?

I’ve known quite a few nonagenarians. Only one was active and happy. The rest were literally waiting to die, for years, and were not happy about it.

I never want to hit that point.

But maybe they say these things about wishing to die or feeling like a burden because people, the very people they trust and loved their whole lives, make them FEEL like they're a burden. You know, we'll all be old one day, if we're lucky. Wouldn't it be nice to think that people would celebrate that as an achievement instead of sitting around waiting for us to die because of how that makes them feel. We sure pretend the West is the bastion of compassion and morality and then I see all of these posts about how old people just need to hurry up and die because they're a "burden" and "unhappy". Do they have to skip around like Dick Van Dyke, tap dancing in the rain, to be acceptable in their old age to others?

People living too long in poor health can become a significant burden on their families.

And? Are we too important to have "burdens" as part of natural life processes? Are you suggesting that burdens and inconvenience is unacceptable to us so ...what is your solution? Not coping mechanisms, support or realistic expectations? Only extinction will suffice so we, who are younger and whilst we are younger, are comfortable?

Fashion - you clearly have not had an elderly parent begging to die or becoming a shadow of themselves not being able to use the bathroom, bed bound, etc. Should we celebrating this?

My mum was like this. Blind, nearly deaf, bed ridden for the last few months of her life. I was quietly relieved when she did pass away. Its no life for anyone to live.
She died of uro sepsis. Hard to believe that a water infection could do this.
Sending hugs to anyone going through this horrible process x
💐🙏❤️

That’s not what I’m posting about though so please don’t derail. I’m talking about people who are in their 90s, bed bound and barely conscious. Certainly not able to post on MN.

We often don’t have the time for the “burdens”. If you are working full time and have dependent kids it is very hard to cope with the demands of very elderly relatives.

Mum just wanted a pill to take 30 years off her actual age. Grew increasingly frustrated she could do what she did before. It’s not just a question of her pulling herself together or spending time with her. Her time had arrived.

She had said to people that she hoped to die in her sleep not because she was a burden on anyone but because she didn’t want to suffer the way she did in her final years.

No. They’re in nursing homes getting pretty good care. One is blind and nearly deaf. She can only lie in her bed from day to day with her thoughts. The other is very dead and can’t see well.

The issue is that there is nothing much in life that gives them pleasure. They don’t like being the way they are.

My nanna lasted about 3 years - wholly unpleasant for everyone involved. It would have been better had she gone years previously.

You’re misunderstanding. None of the people I’ve posted about has said they feel like a burden to others.

It’s a horrible way to exist.

But that’s not what I’m discussing

I don't think I'm derailing. I read that you have decided their quality of life is poor and struggling to understand how or why it continues.

IMO, the way you've positioned your thoughts is why the discussion has evolved the way that it has.

Again, what is it you suggest as a solution? What do you want others to say? Do you wish for them to not die naturally? Is it upsetting for you to see it or experience it? Do you wonder if they are okay dying this way even if you're not?

I think we need re-educated about what it means to age and die. Someone in their 90s isn't going to be posting on MN, if unable, and it is perfectly normal that they are as they are towards the end of their life.

It seems that this fact is not acceptable to you and I'm trying to understand what you think would be more appropriate if you are offended by the natural end of life process.