Carers charging for 30 minutes but only working 15-20 minutes - is this normal for care?

[ImissSpangles]

I am not sure if this is a normal thing to expect from care or not.

Mum lives with my dad, she has dementia and is incontinent. Last year we employed a team of carers to help mum.

They are all self employed but work together as a team, so not an actual care company. In retrospect we absolutely should have gone with a company because things can often become a bit too fragmented for my liking, for example I have to pay everyone individually, they insist on being paid weekly, I would have preferred monthly but they don't want that. Tbh, we had to rush about finding these carers a year ago after mum had come out of a long hospital stay and the NHS discharge carers let us down. It was all frantic at the time and very stressful. Looking back at it all a care company would have been a much better fit.

Anyhow, the carers come three times a day, around 9.30am to get mum up, put on the loo and showered/dressed, then again after lunch for a toilet break and again at 7pm to put mum to bed. They come in pairs and charge £26 per hour and £20 per half hour. This is 7 days a week.

However, they will often only do 15-20 minutes during the afternoon and evening visit and will round their charge to the nearest half hour. I am usually at my parents for the afternoon visit and I have never known them to ever do a full half hour.

I have no idea if this is normal practice for carers? I asked on a Subreddit and was piled upon by some people saying that it's poor enough money as it is and the carers have to consider travel expenses etc. I am a self employed cleaner and when I tell my clients that I am doing an hour, I will do the full hour, I have also incorporated the cost of my travel into my fee as this isn't my clients concern (and my fee is a lot less than the carers).

Does anyone else have private carers for a parent and do they do this? Maybe it is normal, I honestly don't know?

Unfortunately it does seem like the norm. My dad had carers via an agency and they literally there 5 minutes, they were incompetent and used to phone me to say there was no food in - even though I had a food shop delivered and I was over 300 miles away.

I was a carer at one point, so I know its not an easy job but all they had to do was make a sandwich, check his taken his medication and the odd shower as well as give him company.

It wasnt hoisting or anything taxing, they literally pop in and didnt spend 30 minutes there. The most annoying thing is they even done it when I'm there.

Have you asked them why they aren't staying the full half hour that you're paying for?

That's the issue we had with the NHS discharge care company, sometimes they would even 'forget' to turn up.

I was hoping it would have been different with self employed carers. They are kind to mum but I often feel as though it's all a bit rushed and impersonal, -rush in, get mum up off the chair, stick her on the loo, back in chair ......bye!

Dad doesn't want us to. We had such a problem with the NHS discharge carers and we ended up left without any care for a week which meant my sister and I had to do it all and it was very stressful, my dad is worried about upsetting them and losing them.

That would piss me right off. Do they work for an agency? They need reporting to someone. This should not be 'the norm.' Most people would be up on a warning if, for example, they worked 9 to 5, and they just turned up at 9.45 and left at 4!

Its incredibly frustrating, isn't it? This was about 10 years ago though, I'm hoping there is an equivalent website now like checkatrade were you can get carers to do a job and ratings! Now off to search if that exists.

I hope someone comes along with more helpful advice but wanted to say you aren't alone in your experience.

I mean if you don't want to ever challenge them in any way for fear of upsetting them then there's nothing you can do, you just have to accept the situation and keep paying, or find a different company.

This. I would propose they either stay the 30 minutes or if they stay for 15 minutes then that’s what they are paid for. They are committing fraud

It is stressful and worrying for you but sadly the norm.

We had similar with my mother. I timed them once and they were there for 4 minutes of the half hour being paid for. When questioned the agency said it's normal.

No, they are a team of 6 carers who all used to work for a care company but are now all self employed, there is no manager or 'boss'. I realise now, a year on that we really should have gone with a proper company.

You live and learn I suppose!

Yeah it’s the norm as they’ll be setting off for next visit
the firms that guarantee the full vist charge always charge more as the factor in the dead/travel time between visits in there costing
the key thing is when my dad had this they would always over run if need be it worked both ways
but if it’s a personal care visit once she’s changed there isn’t a lot for them to do there not there to clean or tidy up

My sister and I want to change to a care company or better still get a live in carer but dad is very hesitant to rock the boat as such.

I have contacted SS yesterday and they have agreed to come and do a care needs assessment on mum so we need to go from there.

I suspect a care company will be exactly the same, happened with my Dad with both nhs supplied carers and private carers and even when challenged nothing changed.

That's dreadful. It's stressful enough dealing with elderly and unwell parents isn't it, without this kind of nonsense.

I have worked out that we could pay for 2-3 weeks respite care for the 'lost' money we give away each year.

Goodness, where on earth do you turn to? I hear such horror stories regarding care homes, at least at home we can see how mum is treated.

I hate dealing with this. It's been 8 long years and I hate to say it but I have had enough.

It will only get worse with the amount of people reaching older age but in poor health.

Tell them youve noted they only stay for xxx. Do they want you to pay for xxx or do they want to do the full 30 minutes and be paid for it?

I’d be cautious getting 2 carers to turn out for £20 I think you’ll struggle to get a company to take that on it’s not really financially viable

This seems the norm for my MIL carers too, and that is via a big, reputable company, and it happened both when she was paying privately and when it moved to being funded. I think its also complicated by the fact that she often refuses things - doesn't want help to shower even though hasn't had one for days, and they can't force her to do so, so they tend to just then leave and are not proactive in looking for other things they could do in the house, or help her with instead. Its varies carer to carer and we get many different carers coming in.

Carers aren’t there to do things in the house

They each put a detailed invoice in each week and it clearly states 30 mins when we have been timing them and it's very rarely more than 20 mins.

Unless caring for people becomes more highly valued as a profession this sort of thing will keep happening. It's basically an undervalued job on a par with office cleaning.

These carers have so many people to see in their day that short cuts are regularly applied. We have also had both private and council contracted caring companies not show up or leave after a mere 20 minutes to dash to the next person. I did ask one of the more reasonable staff members what their remit actually is; he replied that there was only enough time to get the person out of bed and to make them a cup of tea. Then it is on to the next person.

I'd also be having words with them re a 7.00pm bedtime if this is becoming unsuitable for your mother. Could they arrive later?.

I would override your dad here and complain. You're paying for their time and you should receive the full half an hour. In your circumstances now I would start looking at homes with a dementia unit.

The charges are per person. Their fees are £26 per hour and £20 per 30 mins, each.

It must be a difficult job I grant you but it just doesn't seem right, morally. Very few people have pots of money to throw at care do they, my mum has enough savings to probably last another year, maybe. Perhaps they think my parents are loaded and wouldn't miss the £8k or so they are basically giving away each year to the carers!

I could never charge my clients for time that I haven't completed.

Hi OP

re your comment
"My sister and I want to change to a care company or better still get a live in carer but dad is very hesitant to rock the boat as such".

Do consider changing the care company but you may well find you will just receive more of the same. A live in carer will cost you a considerable amount of money. I can understand why your dad does not want to potentially cause a fuss but you should complain.

I have contacted SS yesterday and they have agreed to come and do a care needs assessment on mum so we need to go from there".
This is an excellent idea. However, both parents should have their needs assessed.

I think some do though. I have asked on some of the dementia FB groups, asked what their loved ones carers do and some do all kinds from light cleaning, meal prep, making a quick cuppa just before they leave etc. I even make cups of tea for my elderly cleaning clients and I often run over my time whilst chatting to them as I know I am often the only person they will see for days.

I don't expect too much from mum's carers along as she is kept clean and out of discomfort and we don't mind paying the extra now and then but I have looked back and it's every single day. That works out a lot of money of a year.