Best way to motivate DD in her learning

[EffSmartyPants]

DD is 15, (late summer) and really lovely girl. She is gifted academically, predicted 8s and 9s and a 7. I’ve posted about her before but NC
However her teachers think she doesn’t seem to put much effort in, misses prep even though I regularly ask if she’s done them and remind her to do them ( I am now checking the actual finished work). In class she doesn’t engage much, doesn’t ask for help but scores highly in tests and exams so understands what she’s taught easily.
They are all confident she’s got the ability to get all 9s if she would put the effort in. Another common theme they mention is lack of organisation, which we see a lot at home. Her room is always messy ( i’ve heavily reduced her things so a bit better) and she’s always forgetting this or that, forgets what she was meant to be doing but I don’t want to just say ADHD if that’s not what it is.

What is the best way to motivate her? We’ve always encouraged her to develop a love for learning and she is genuinely curious about the world as a whole. She was always an avid reader until recently.

Of course I don’t want to push her to a point where she gets anxious or stressed but I would like her to push herself because it will help her in future.
I’ve asked her if she thinks she’s pushing herself or what she thinks might motivate her but she doesn’t answer.

I offered her money in yr9 end of year exams for effort and she got the equivalent 9s but she wasn’t bothered by it last year.

I found academics really easy and didn’t build skills for learning and so didn’t do as well at university as I could have done. I don’t want the same for her.

One question (and as a teacher in a fee paying school, as you mention ‘prep’). What does she need all 9’s for at GCSE?

Great question. She doesn’t really need them, you’re right.
I’m really more bothered about the lack of effort. I think practising effort is important for when it happens to be actually needed.

Do you think i’m asking for too much? She’s happy, she’s doing well so leave it? I think I just want her to be/do the best she can.

It’s always a chilled chat with her about this btw. She knows we’re very clearly proud of her and tell her that.

I know someone who was like this. She was later diagnosed as having ADHD. Her life was transformed after her diagnosis and ongoing treatment.
Incidentally, she went on to both Cambridge and Oxford.

I always felt that once a teen finds their passion they will ramp up that inner motivation.
Sounds like as a family the aim is uni, I’d happily let her coast as long as she’ll get accepted somewhere.
I’ve had 3. Secondary school grades is not the end goal, focus on the real prize that next stage.

Would it help motivate her if she has something to aim for? You could encourage her to think about what subject she wants to study at uni, which universities she likes, what careers she's interested in. If any of these are something that needs top grades, then that's a good incentive for her.

Bribing with money will make the issue worse. Read up on intrinsic motivation.

What does she say herself about why she doesn't seem motivated? You can only start there.

I would say: back off. She’s not a little child.

Clearly school will pile on pressure and grade focus - that in itself might be causing some feelings of burn out and a “mega eye roll”.

For a bright child, GCSEs are really quite boring. Regurgitating facts in a prescriptive way isn’t intellectually exciting and it goes on for years. You want to make sure your dd keeps “something in reserve” for the slog in Y11.

My dd is in a good state school and sitting 10 GCSEs this year, she is “capable” of 9s but in reality only bothering with STEM and art. I have learned to live with this. She’ll probably get mostly 8s, perhaps a few 7s and on a bad day an 6 in English, and hopefully 9s in maths, biology and chemistry. She knows what she wants to do at university and she’s not a fool - she knows she doesn’t need a clean sweep of 9s.

In year 9 dd discovered she could turn up at tests having done very little (20 mins cramming on the school bus) or no revision and still achieve an 8. She got an 8 in the gcse she sat last year with very little revision. So when her school goes on and on about revision strategy she simply doesn’t believe it applies to her. I think she’s right!

If my parenting adds further nonsense about exams and grades and homework it contributes precisely nothing except getting us both wound up. My dd thinks I don’t understand or trust her; and I end up worried that she has unilaterally rejected the advice and wisdom of the teaching profession and adopted her “bare minimum” strategy.

So I decided to be someone who facilitates her instead of trying to monitor her. I asked her “how does your revision approach work? When I was at school it was all about mind maps and practice questions. What do you find effective?”

And dd replies in a way that makes me realise she is totally self-aware; she understands how her brain works, how she learns etc. And all I need to do is supply lots of coloured pens, Pritt sticks, and fresh fruit for revision sessions.

The last thing my dd needs at this age is a helicopter parent.

And regarding messy bedroom: my dd has similar behaviour. Lots of piles of rubbish, chaotic drawers, wardrobe outrageously messy, floor awash with a mix of dirty and clean clothes , discarded wrappers , bits of paper and art supplies, homework books and empty drink cartons.

I insist she cleans up once a week so we can vacuum and then I leave her to it.

Lack of organisation could be can't not won't, for whatever reason.
Have you helped set up and run methods with her for being organised?

She sounds a lot like my daughter - very naturally clever, but puts little effort in. She got all 8s and 9s as well. Room always a mess, constantly losing things, always running late. It really hit the fan the Easter before A-Levels, when she couldn't motivate herself to revise, but couldn't get away with it like she had for GCSEs. She managed to pull it back and get the grades she needed to go to university. She's just been diagnosed with ADHD. In high-achieving girls, they very much fly below the radar and nothing gets picked up when they're younger. I do worry about how she will get on at university, but she's 18 and an adult. I can't keep nagging her to revise.

@KookyMoose i think my dd is on the same path! You know what you’re right - you can’t keep nagging. The point is they are bright - they can learn to adapt. There are plenty of tools out there to help them. And actually I think it’s important that THEY figure it out. We can point them in the right direction but what does nagging achieve? They switch off.

What money can’t buy (Micheal Sandel) has a good section on the corrupting effect of paying people to do things. It’s a great book in general.

She likely is putting in alot of invisible effort you do not see because she is learning the material.

I kind of don’t understand your point. She is already getting high grades which would be the reason for lots more effort. So why demand more effort? To a teenager, school is their full time job. They also have lives. More effort would mean a work-life balance that takes away from life to get a teeny tiny bit higher grade, a bump that is not necessary for her future. I think she is showing good sense and a good balance.

I agree that organisation is an issue and think you should teach her how to be better organised. It will reduce her stress and make the effort she has been putting forth work more efficiently and effectively.

Whilst I understand your frustration dc have to learn yo motivate themselves at some stage and gcse is a good time. It sounds like she will do well enough for a levels regardless so who is wanting 9s? You or her? At some point it becomes their life not yours and you have to back off and let them learn. I am not suggesting you watch her fail, she isn't going to from what you say. A messy rooms honestly not worth stressing over. As long as dirty washing and dirty crockery is where it should be I'd let other clutter/unmade bed etc go. If you are always nagging her she will pushback and it gets even worse.

I would try to get her thinking about/excited about what she might want to do after school university wise. Maybe even visit a few university towns.

That’ll give her some context to why it’s worth putting the effort in for better grades.

Tbh though I think some people are just like that. My DH coasted through education. He got lots of A stars (but not all) A*AA at A level, a first in his degree and had a PhD but he never really tried that hard. He could just do it. It drove his parents mad because they knew he wasn’t trying very hard but he still did very well.

He puts much more effort into his job now that he finds interesting and stimulating than I think he ever did in education.

Food for thought indeed.
I do wonder if she does have ADHD because she might sometimes say generally “my brain did …” but I just don’t know. I have wrestled with the idea of looking into an assessment for her.
I will speak to her and see what she says.
I have asked her in the past if she thinks she might have ADHD when I’ve seen her watching videos in the topic on Youtube abd asked if we should look into it but she says no.

I have made her a list for getting organises but have to check in on an evening if that she’s done her night before checklist, timers with her tasks, etc

We’re following her lead in terms of her next step and her dream is to go to uni, one of the top 3/4.
It does make me tink if she goes to one of those, it would benefit her to get her effort in.

Thinking now though, tbh she might just be quietly working hard away and because she isn’t loud or working things out on her own, the teachers have drawn that conclusion.

Thank you for this.
Reading the responses is really helping.

She’s predicted 9s in the 4 subjects she wants to study at A level and she somehow genuine love for them. DH and I can have enjoyable to her about those subjects, as in share interesting facts etc.

I do know a lot about intrinsic motivation, hard to believe I know!
I never would’ve thought I’d give her money.

I think when I saw in year 9 that perhaps as things were ramping up, I couldn’t see her putting the effort I expected in, I wondered what I could do. She then mentioned that some of her friends got money for exams and I, on reflection, made the offered her some. I think she got is and realised she wasn’t bothered by it because she doesn’t really need it She was totally unbothered by it last year, still met the targets for majority of the subjects but never even asked for it. She probably felts pressured by it. I realised that.

DD and I thankfully have a wonderful relationship consisting of several in jokes, lots of long hugs (yes still at 15), watching our favourite shows together and several heart to heart conversations as well as chats and discussions about the world in general. She’ll reach out to walm arm in arm when we’re walking outside. I take her lead in all the above.

Ive posted this because I love her and want the best for her. We remind her that her academics is only a small part of who she is as a human being. I just want ideas on how to help her in this specific situation if needed. That’s all.

Thank you for your post though.

This is really useful @KookyMoose. A friend’s DD’s ADHD was missed at secondary school and she went from entering year 7 with high predictions to doing terribly at GCSEs. She was diagnosed at college and is now thriving with the support she’s gettung.
@ImBeeZee I promise I don’t bag her. Everything is just done very lightly. I suggest i think this might help, do you think we should try it, etc.
That’s the whole point of my post, to find out what the right place to point her to is, I suppose.

But what is the effort you do expect to see and is it realistic? What is she actually doing and how is it different?

Should she sit there for hours revising material she already knows instead of focusing on areas that are gaps or she finds a bit more tricky? Or learn something extra that isn’t necessarily in her books? And for what? Purely for show so you can SEE her “working hard”?

I honestly don’t understand what you think she should be doing that she isn’t.

It’s honestly probably me wanting all 9s. She used to say she would like to get all 9s. Our desires change so maybe hers have.

She most probably is. You’re right. You’ve made very good points there.

We will continue to look into how best to organise herself.

Ive had lots of good advice and reassurance and I appreciate all of it very much.
I have all I need now.
I will follow DD’s lead and support her.
We will look at the best ways for her to organise herself, looking into the future and will explore the possibility of ADHD etc
She’s a very happy and lovely girl and that’s priceless to me.

I shall bid you adieu on this thread.