Private school?

[KPSnacks]

DD is 5 and has recently started at our local (state) primary school. She knows a couple of girls in her class but I wouldn't say they were friends per se. She's not particularly excited about seeing them in the playground each morning. I earn well (maybe not by MN standards, but just under £100k). DH is an average earner.

No one in my family, nor my husband's family, went to private school. I always thought that it was elitist and wrong, and that children should mix with other children from all walks of life.

DD's school has a mix of kids, including those with parents from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. Picture some parents vaping in the playground, wearing PJs to drop the kids off, and parents who don't work. That's no reflection on the kids, who I'm sure are nice enough.

The school itself is scruffy, but obviously there's no money to improve it. One of my friends said DD won't notice that stuff.

I always thought that the school just has to teach DD how to read and write. But I've found myself wondering if we should try to stretch to private school. In my job (finance) I'm surrounded by people whose kids are in private school and the opportunities sound amazing. I guess I'm worried that DD will be influenced by some of the other kids and will eventually start thinking that learning isn't interesting or cool. I don't want her to be disadvantaged. She's quite shy and I think she would thrive with smaller class sizes. At the same time, part of me still disagrees with private school and I'm not even sure we could afford it - isn't having money to save for her future and nice holidays etc better?

I know I'm a hypocrite but she's my first born and I genuinely just want the best for her.

A good private school is worth it imo for the smaller class sizes and range of opportunities. However, it gets more expensive for secondary than for primary/prep. Will you be able to afford it right through to 6th form? Going from private primary to state secondary could be a huge culture shock. Do you plan on having more children? Could you do it for them all if so? You need to do your sums, including activities and trips.

We also have a 2 year old so the affordability is potentially an issue. I'm so surprised at myself for feeling like this. I thought primary school wouldn't really matter as long as she had parents who cared about her education, but I wonder if the small classes at private school would do something to shape her formative years and give her the kind of confidence I never had growing up.

Equally I don't want to be in a position where we never go on holiday or do anything fun because all our disposable income is going on school fees.

Is there another state primary you think she might get on better in locally? Even if you had her on a wait list for a year or 2.
We were lucky to get our girl into a fantastic state primary and she's just started a lovely private secondary but seems to be keeping up if not a bit ahead of the kids who were at the private junior school. There are some really great state primaries around so don't assume the only other option is private. Rather than trying to afford 2 kids all the way through private education, it might be worth looking into relocating to somewhere with a great school. It's a shame you don't feel this is the right school for your DD but I am sure there are other options (including private)

Private school costs an absolute fortune these days. I don’t agree with it, but aside from that, I really don’t think it’s worth it for primary school. Maybe get your daughter into some clubs outside school to build confidence?

Yeah she’ll definitely end up thinking that learning isn’t interesting or cool. She’ll probably try drugs soon and lipstick if you’re not careful. These terrible state school with influencing kids in.

Where are you? There must be other primary schools available ?

It is normal to wonder I think, esp with the first. If you only had one and could guarantee she could stay for GCSE or A 'Levels without it hurting your household that would be a no-brainer, but now it is a lot more with the VAT over the entire school years. Personally I think you'd be better off saving it and if it is still there for A 'Levels you can splurge for both of them for those 2 years. Remember Uni costs are also largely on the parents now too as most loans don't cover city rental costs, so keep that in mind for both too.

(a) is there any chance of another DC or are you done? You can probably afford it but not if you get pg again.
(b) how close is the nearest suitable private school? Long commutes to school aren't good for a young child and having friends you can only see if mum drives you there is sad compared to friends you can see easily in the nearest playground.

If you decide to go for it, make the move after y1 starting y2 at the new school in September. Don't do a mid-year move.

i’ve found private to be absolutely worthwhile in primary, as that is where a child’s relationship with education is formed. If I had to prioritise years in private it would be years 3 to 8 as that’s when they are learning how to learn and forming a sense of identity.

Just from Reception to GCSE for 2 kids you are looking at an average total cost of approximately £480,000 to £530,000.

If you have SEN in your family it may well be worth it, but if not and it means you won't be able to do family holidays, get them clubs, uni rent or safe cars post driving test I think you'd be wise to save it for later when you know more about their learning style and can really focus in on their needs.

If you have grammar school in your area most parents I know with your budget (who don't have huge savings to use or inheritance) are throwing everything at tutoring for the 11+ and going from there. Private primaries don't always help with that because they want you to go to their senior schools.

I did transfer one to a prep at 8 and both went to private secondary at 11. The one who went at 11 stayed in state primary.

There are various things to consider. Like state schools, not all private schools are the same. Destinations tell you everything. Where are the privately educated dc going at 11 or 13? Back into state or on to a private secondary?

What can you truly afford? You will be second class if your dc just go back into state at 11 and don’t try for a selective private school and it will be very hard!

Small classes are not the great advantage some think they are, especially if it’s a mixed school. There could be half a dozen girls for friends. My DDs prep was all girls and that had 18 in the class so more than her state primary in terms of possible girl friends. Also it masks average teaching. Dc tend to be more compliant and average teachers survive in private who would never manage in a state school. On the other hand they might be fantastic and a proper prep will teach subjects with specialists from y4. But these schools tend to cost more.

Music, sport and drama as well as clubs should be better but not always the buildings. A couple of local private primaries are in poor classrooms in old houses. They don’t have shiny new facilities and definitely have poor sports facilities. Small classes but virtually no competitive sport as they don’t have pitches or pools. Or dc for teams. The best ones have everything and the fees to match.

Lastly, dc don’t always have close friends at 5. Mine didn’t. They haven’t established a pecking order yet and don’t know how they stand with other dc. Around here, parents sort that out. You don’t make friends with parents you don’t like the look of. You have been quick to ditch your obviously faux morals but you could curate friendships within the group that meet your approval. DD then gets hand picked friends - fairly standard around here. Your class cannot be full of pyjama mammas!

So I’d be very careful. Y3 after ks2 isn’t a bad time to move and lots of schools recruit then. I’d be careful about quality and affordability though and if you can only then use the local comp, you have dangled something special that you cannot fulfil which will disappoint dd.

I think you'd struggle to afford it on your salaries, unless you've got other finances that would cover some of the fees for 2 children. We've got 2 at private school and my income (similar to yours) basically covers the school fees and we live on DH's income. Only you know what your outgoings are, but it doesn't really sound affordable from the basic details you've provided.

We weren't in a position to afford private primary, but used that time to bolster our pensions and save where we could. We're now in a position that we can afford private secondary, knowing that we can dip into those savings or reduce pension contributions if we need to.

Check your catchment secondary schools and then work out your priorities. Fee anxiety is very real. Our plan was always for secondary and have been saving in advance for that so we never have to pay double fees. That was possible by doing state primary. However, we moved one of our children to a private prep and slightly scuppered the saving plan. Objectively, the environment and opportunities are better but it’s not so clear cut that we’ve immediately moved our youngest as well. We have an outstanding primary though and the OP’s one sounds like it may not be. Once you start, you have to be confident you can continue for two. Inflate the fees 10 years and you get some scary numbers.

She's only a month in. It's very common for children not to be particularly enthusiastic at the start of primary. I would leave it for a while and see how she goes.

Firstly get over this worry about being a hypocrite. You’re not a hypocrite unless you think no one else should go to private school apart from your own kid. Now we pay taxes on school fees we can be free of guilt knowing our taxes are being spent on making the state sector better for those still in it.

For your daughter, just go visit some private schools and see what you think?

For me it’s not about the academics but that it’s just generally nice for kids to be in a school with nice grounds and a swimming pool and lovely sports facilities and a pottery studio and theatre. It’s nice. And I like my kids to have nice stuff, which I never had myself.

Equally your daughter wouldn’t be missing out by not going, don’t go down that path! Most people don’t go to private school and not going is no more ‘missing out’ than you or I may be missing out by not having a private jet or horses or swimming pool in the garden. These are luxury things which only a few can access, and private school is also a luxury. But if you can afford it go see some and see if you think it would be worth it.

Also friendships shouldn’t feature in your decisions. She’ll make friends anywhere. Or won’t. Kids don’t care about socioeconomic backgrounds.

What are your local preps like @KPSnacks
Are they financially viable or is there a risk that they may close in the next couple of years?

FWIW, my 4 dc went to a primary school that… well, let’s just say wouldn’t be MN approved. It was always a good start to the day when there was a parental punch up.

My youngest has now finished school, so I have the benefit of hindsight. It was fine. I had a few tears when DD1 was in Reception - what type of lions den was she going into every day? But it was okay. Oddly my son, in the year below, was in a very ‘naice’ class, populated with the children of university lecturers and doctors. But even in that class there were some interesting home backgrounds.

My two eldest daughters have graduated with firsts, and have good graduate jobs. My son is just going into his final year at med school. My youngest is just starting her RG degree.

I am ideologically opposed to private schools - and with four dc, that is just as well . So please feel free to take my views with a pinch of salt. If you just had the one child, I’d say look at your local private schools, and see if you think one would suit your child. Because ultimately, ideology is less important than your child’s happiness. But with two children you’re going to struggle. And once you start the private route it’s very difficult to backtrack.

I had a few tears when DD1 was in Reception - what type of lions den was she going into every day?

Just to be clear, the tears were mine, not DDs.

Mine are in private and the opportunities they get are brilliant , they are in classes of under 10 with one teacher and one ta full time .

My dds have been in private school since nursery and they do have amazing opportunities compared to state. Their reception class had 12-14 dcs with one teacher and one TA, they have specialist teachers for PE (5 days a week), ballet, French, music, and there are 3 optional after school fun clubs in drama/dance/art that they can attend from reception. After school care can be booked on an ad-hoc basis right up until the last minute. The families aren't super rich but they are mostly dual working professionals, often with interesting jobs like art historians, economists, TV presenters, and they give their time to give talks in class.

So obviously I do think it's worth it for us, though we aren't having to sacrifice holidays and I am neutral on any ideological stance. It would be tight to send two dcs on that income and you have to assume that fees would rise faster than inflation. I would crunch some numbers using AI to forecast fee rises and consider potential mortgage rises, salary changes etc.

I disagree that it's hard to send to private primary and then go back to state for secondary - pupils at our school don't tend to go to bog standard comps but quite a few opt for a local top-performing comp, or grammar schools, although the majority do go to secondary independent schools.

My DS went from reception to yr 6 in a state primary. We paid for tutoring from yr 5 to prep him for independent school entrance exams and he ended up being offered places at two independent schools. He is a bright boy with a sensitive nature, not especially sporty. He would moan about going to school every day for the last two years of primary.

He is now in his first term in yr 7 at one of the private schools and he loves it. They have small classes (15) and the kids behave rather than acting up and wandering around like in his primary class. He has had to catch up with French and Latin but is making very good progress in both. No catch up needed on other subjects. This afternoon he is off to play a rugby match at another school - he is in the B team but if he had gone to state he would never have had the chance to represent his school. (His friends who have gone to the local comp have confirmed that it is the same group of confident kids who are picked for all of the school teams).

His state primary did well enough for him academically but we wanted a nicer environment for hm for secondary. I guess what I am saying is, if the state primary is ok, stick with it and reassess for secondary school.

No reason to feel bad for wanting the best opportunities for your kids. This inbuilt hatred of wanting to do better, wanting to send kids to private school, earning more money is such a cultural drawback in the UK.

Yes, private school will offer you greater opportunities. Not so much the learning, but the facilities and opportunities for extra curricular activities around the school day. However, the biggest advantage you get is a self selecting group of people who have decided that sacrificing for their kids education and future prospects is something they're willing to do - and therefore the kids and parents are all geared towards generally positive outcomes.

It's expensive but I would 100% recommend doing it if you can afford to do so.

I'd invest in drama, sport, an orchestral instrument (when she's ready), a junior SIPP and a house deposit for both of your children. I think these will set them up for life, wherever they go to school, but if you can still afford a good private school after that, by all means, go ahead. Don't feel guilty about it, just be honest with yourself.

I totally agree with this.

OP primary school is not about teaching how to read and write, this can easily be done by parents at home. Primary years are formative for character building, developing resilience, confidence, can-do attitude, learning how to overcome obstacles and how to win and lose etc. Yes, parents can teach this too, and yes, it can be organised outside of school through competitive sport for example, but it's better if the school reinforces this during 8 hours a day they spend there.

@Ubertomusic My DD in state primary got all of that. Didn’t want competitive sport, but it was there. The best primaries do teach dc how to learn and my DDs certainly got confidence, resilience and all the other things you mention. I definitely could not teach reading and maths and I’m not arrogant enough to think I could.

The huge problem with your idea is what if your catchment state secondary school is pants? Around here we have state grammars. The preps are mostly crammers for the test and don’t have great sport, facilities or art for example. Dc don’t spend 8 hours a day in these schools either. It’s not a 40 hour week. So if dc don’t get to the grammars, what then? Some secondaries are good but you need to be in the right catchment.

My DC got into a good private secondary from state primary and 4 of her state primary class got Oxbridge offers. They didn’t miss out in the slightest. One went to Cambridge to do maths. I would not be spending £7-8000 a term on a prep school to just go to a RI secondary school! Dc would get the shock of their lives. You need serious money for private secondary and that’s where the big differences are. They are not between an average prep and a good state primary.