Wage differentials.

[PinkFruitbat]

The graduate premium has eroded and wage differentials compressed. Is this the socialist utopia you dreamed of?

So what do you deem as acceptable regarding state support for those that need it?

Mostly I just think it’s hilarious that you think we’ve had socialism over the last decade. We spent over 10 years under the Tories who cut everything and we went through Covid and now the Labour government we have is unable to turn things around overnight.

You’ll explode when I tell you that fees are free to students in Scotland and we also pay their bus fares!

Benefits have been classed as benefits since the Tories classed them as benefits. It used to be called “social security”. We’ve reverted to that description in Scotland with the social security payments that are devolved.

This has given me a good chuckle.

It needn't be from the future. I think pp is suggesting comparing the average wage 5-years post-graduation with peers. Any graduate salary from the 2021 cohort or earlier would be in scope.

That makes much more sense than my reading of it! You are right. My apologies to Ms TeenToTwenties.

The young people I know that have finished uni recently have all got on a graduate scheme starting on between 32k and 38k. Their salary will increase significantly in the next few years.

Free to students but paid for from higher tax rates. We could do the same in the rest of the UK.

The absolute bare minimum, help for the truly desperate, the sick and seriously disabled. Everyone else; you are on your own.

I don’t remember it ever being called social security. It’s called that in the USA.

Department of Social Security was replaced by Department for Work and Pensions in 2001.
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-of-social-security

It’s not about where you start as a grad it’s where you end up. Lifetime earnings are still well above non grad. From the IFS

I couldn’t add the graph from IFS but this is from the telegraph which should please the right wing PPs
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02739/GraduatePay_2739011b.jpg?imwidth=680
Graduates will outperform non graduates over their lifetime.

It’s weird how PPs with right wing views love to talk down the country as broken because of two years of Labour. We’ve had a right wing government for 14 of the last 16 years but still two years of Labour is to blame. We’ve had a decade of immense turmoil - Boris Johnson’s Brexit (estimated to have cost the uk economy 6-8% of GDP), Covid (estimated cost £300-400bn), Ukraine war (direct support £25bn plus need to increase defense spending plus fuel and food inflation), Trumps tariffs. But KS broke it all because he didn’t manage to stop disabled people getting PIP.

TR cost the government a fortune and was largely ineffective, barring a few pockets of CRC innovation. Have a look at the HMIP findings during that period.

Anecdata sample of 2 but I went to uni my brother didn't, he out earned me throughout our 20s and earns well. Now we are late 30s/early 40s I out earn him and my earning potential isn't maxed out, his is. I have now paid off my student loan and also have a much better pension etc

I'm not sure you're right about that. I certainly don't consider people my age all to be "on benefits".

I don't see how you can class something in the same bracket as disability and unemployment benefits when you are obliged to make contributions for 35 years, with a promise at the start of those 35 years that this payment will guarantee you a state pension no matter what your other income then is.

In any other circumstances that would be called "an investment".

I don’t see any significant change in socialism delivered under the tories as has been delivered under Labour. It’s more of the same. Control of money/taxation to appease chunks of the electorate for future votes.

Your contributions were a tax to pay for the pension benefit of older generations. And today current workers pay NI to cover the SP cost for you. There is no pension pot, there is no ring fence of taxes or contributions made. It actually takes a pretty modest amount of taxes paid to ‘secure’ a SP. I dare say the vast majority get a very good deal here. Which is quite unfair to the fewer number of high wealth persons making much larger contributions.

it’s a benefit, has always been classed as a benefit.

Those average graduate wages over a lifetime are miserably low. Certainly not worth raking up £50k of debts! Accept that this is from 2013…

I know exactly what was done with my contributions, but that's just the dumb way that was chosen to finance it.

The state pension specifically requires 35 years of contributions to qualify you can pay extra in to get more, you can defer taking it to increase the annual yield. As I said, in any other situation, that would be called an investment. In the case the "bank" is the DWP.

I don't believe that most people would agree that the state pension is just like unemployment benefit.

You're creasing me up now with your deliberately provocative thread. It's unfair for higher earners to pay more tax? I'm a right winger and I don't believe that.

We don't have socialism, it's social democracy.

This isn't the US, I.e, anything centre left = socialism.
Please look up on wickepedia or somewhere, what socialism is.

Please do explain how I can pay extra to get more State Pension. That sounds great!

Not sure I fancy deferring it beyond my current SP age of 68 though…

This gap will vanish once A.I. embeds itself in the professional space.

If you won't have enough qualifying years you can pay to complete missing years to get up to the full pension.