Fines for Term Time unauthorised absence (holiday)

[DobbinsVeil]

Holiday isn't booked yet but pretty much decided it will also involve time out of school. The term-time reason isn't financial but I understand that it's very unlikely a holiday will be approved.

I have 4 DC so I realise it's per parent with PR(2), per child. My LA's policy says each PCN is £60 per child per parent (if paid within 21 days, then it rises) and that they can issue 2 PCNs per child per year.

We are going away for 3 weeks, plan was for 1 week before Easter holidays then 2 weeks in school holidays. But with flights etc it would seem likely it would be 1 week before Easter than a couple of school days after (so back to school on the Weds, rather than Monday). Would the absence be counted as continuous and one fine per child per parent, or do you think we'd get fined for the absence before the school holiday and then another one for the couple of days after?

Usually 5 days in one term, so half that’s in spring term, the latter days are in summer term. Better check they don’t operate some sort of rolling 12 week period... can you aim for just a couple of days before holiday- might be cheaper flying on an unpopular day like Weds.

Adjust reread-it’s fined per parent, per child, PER DAY, so if you do ‘trip the system’ your fine could well cost more than the hol

Fine is usually per day or sometimes per session eg am and pm.

In my experience if the council depends to fine depends on the child’s overall attendance so far but different areas have different policies.

I'd heard about the daily or per session fine, but as the maximum on PCN is £60 if paid in 21 days, and the maximum number of PCN's that can be issued in a year is 2, surely that's a maximum of £120 per child per parent so, £240 x 4 each? I mean I'd rather just that one lot of fines, but 2 lots is still doable, daily really not.

If your LA has set a maximum number of fixed penalties at 2 per year it may be that anyone who reaches that limit could be taken to court. If they do take you to court you can be fined up to £2,500, get a community order or a jail sentence of up to 3 months. Check their policy carefully.

Does the trip have to be 3 weeks? It sounds like it could be long haul, so not only will the kids be missing quite a lot of school, they could be seriously jetlagged when they go back? Would it be an option to do 3 days before the holidays and 2 days after, but only go for 2.5 weeks so there are no fines and a bit of time to recover?

Or wait until the summer.

It really was whether the leave would be looked at as one continuous period when there was a school holiday in between.

I appreciate the LA could go very hard ball on us and not go the PCN route, but tbh I am prepared to be summonsed to court and justify why some of the holiday was in term time (though the bulk is not). I currently have a child on a part-time timetable who has been refused an EHCP and I'm preparing for tribunal. He may well end up being home-ed by the holiday so that would be one child fewer to be fined over. There's a possibility DS1's school may authorise the holiday. He does have an EHCP and attends an enhanced provision.

Locally, parents refused to pay a fine, went to court and lost. They were found them guilty of failing to ensure their children attend school regularly, given a year's conditional discharge and had to pay about £800 in total. I've also found parents that have been charged for 3 days absence but the fine has been pro-rata of £60. So we're willing to risk it..

sorry x-post probstimeforanewname

Well, tbh there's no need for a holiday at all!

Basically we've decided to use an inheritance to take the DC to Orlando do Disney etc. This will be their first trip abroad and on a plane. The reason for 3 weeks at Easter is because 2 of our 4 have ASD and we feel 3 weeks gives us a better chance of them being able to cope with days out. Originally was going to be August but apparently thunder storms happen most afternoons and this will terrify at least one of them with ASD. The time off includes allowance for jetlag etc, not straight back to school after flight. Again I know this can all be argued against, but that's how we arrived at our decision, as we won't be going again.

Have you asked the school if they would authorise? I took two children out of same school for four school weeks for long-haul family reunion and they agreed. We had to come off roll and re-register but they agreed the opportunities the trip presented were educational. They gave is school work to do too.

If primary age try asking the school on exceptional needs grounds? Explaining SEN reasons. Headteachers do have some discretion. I took my DC to Lapland and whilst it couldn’t he authorised he said he hoped we had a lovely time and didn’t fine us!

For our school its only once you hit the 5th day you get fined, so for example if you go away beforehand, as long as the children are in school one day that following week you only need to declare the holiday for the initial week they are missing. Thats what we have done. Paid the fine for the first week and put that week down then will ring dc in as absent the following week mon- thurs and send back into school on the friday. It may be worth finding out what the policy is x

Straysocks By coming off roll you risked someone else taking your place before you could register. Not generally recommended.

Putting the fine aside I would check when Spring Break is in the US as that is the busiest time of year at the parks and with 2 of your DC having ASD they might find it hard to manage the crowds and the waiting.

As far as I know October half term is one of the quieter times to go.

I would do the three weeks then. Before Easter often clashes with spring break and it's extra busy. If you want a quieter time, October half term is better.

sorry noenergy - I didn't read your post first!

Thanks all.
We've honestly considered all times of year - October doesn't work for us this year (or for the next 5!).
I'm just trying to calculate the most likely fines outcome.

If you have 2 asd kids I seriously caution whether it's a good idea for so long, it's so over the top and stressful there. Dd struggled with the crowds, the characters, and heat (we went in summer) if you haven't done Disney, perhaps a shorter break is better after 4 or 5 days they will have had enough i found. Paris in winter is quieter and a lot closer to home - we drove. It's just too much for many kids

Easter will be very busy at Disney. Just saying you need to plan for that.
I hope it all works out well for you.

Teentimestwo, I agree it isn't generally recommended. I had written into school and discussed it first and we were,assured we would be able to come back. I think it is worth talking to them first, seeing if there is an alternative. As Likesweetpeas said, it may make a difference that it is primary.

I get it seems like a strange thing to do with our particular family, but I am leaning towards the not great case scenario, it is entirely possible that both will cope o.k with the crowds.

I will be writing and asking all the schools to make an exception but I am working on the basis it will be refused. The school least likely to make an exception is the primary, as things have been somewhat......difficult.l.... with DS3 and his needs. But tbh by Easter 2020 he may be completely Home Ed so...

Hi op, I would definitely write a letter to accompany your request, explaining the reasons why you have decided this based on your dc with asd. My ds has asd and even the airport can be extremely overwhelming, especially security.

We have taken ours out over the last few years for a week at a time and have been extremely honest on every occasion.
Ds has been doing his GCSE's this year which meant we couldn't go at may half term as usual and reduce the amount of days off needed.
We are currently in Turkey and are home on Sunday. Dd is in year 3 and will go back on Monday, Tuesday and finishes at 12.30 on Wednesday. We have never been fined. Dc have excellent attendance and on 2 occasions the holidays were authorised ( secondary school dc )

Good luck!

I hope you've all had a lovely time Zoflorabore.

Unfortunately DS3 will be starting off the school year in September still on a reduced timetable, so that will have an adverse effect on his attendance, which will put any kind of exception out of the question (I think). At a minimum it will be a 7 half-day period where he is absent in the afternoon. And if the reintegration plan doesn't work, then I dread to think! Due to several incidents in the last week, I've also said he's not returning for the rest of this term (3 more days) and that will go as unauthorised. We're taking the view if DS3 is still in education at all by the time of our trip it will be a win.

Why not Disney Paris then? No chance of storms, jet lag etc and still get the Disney experience.

Although Disney is a big part, it's not the only reason we're going to Florida.

If your son is on a reduced timetable, unless you've insisted on it against school advice I don't see how that could impact his attendance - he should be recorded something like educated elsewhere for the time he isn't in school.

That aside, my understanding is the fine which can be levied is per child, per parent, per absence. As they take register twice a day, the absence could be 2 a day.

So; 1 child x 2 absences a day x 2 parents...

I worked out for our 4dc to be taken out of school we could be fined £960 a day. But that is absolute worst case scenario.

What seems to be happening locally is the fine levied is just £60. Looking at figures and doing the maths, this is what was happening in 15/16. They haven't published figures since but absences rose from 31 to 748 over a 3 year period but the fine remained at £60.