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Original poster

Body Privacy in primary schools PE

56 replies

MiniqBrown · 09/03/2018 14:22

Hi Guys!!

I raised an issue with my 4yo school about body privacy in PE- turns out in most schools across the UK girls and boys must change in front of each other until year 6! I was unimpressed as my dd tends to accidentally take her pants off whenever she gets changed! And there was also a girl in her class whose body was made fun of by boys and I thought it was unacceptable. Not to mention I got my period in year 4 and was wearing a bra- cannot imagine the humiliation of having to change in front of boys back then!

I started a petition to have a policy which makes schools allow separate changing- girls in classroom, boys in hall kind of thing, nothing drastic! If you care about this issue please sign the petition and pass it round. Trying to get the Secretary of Education to respond and it seems they only respond to numbers!

bit.ly/changePE

Happy to be a part of the mumsnet crew!!

OP posts:
BrendansDanceShoes · 09/03/2018 17:08

My experience was that there was separate boys and girls changing from year 5. I think it is a decision made from school to school, so yes, maybe there should be a policy for all schools. But separate changing requires separate rooms and separate supervision, so in practice this could be difficult to implement. Using a TA for one group supervision could mean that they lose out from time when they could be doing booster/intervention work with other kids. Kids should be learning what behaviour is and isn't appropriate and incidents such as the 'making fun of' should be punished, in the same way as if this was when kids were not getting changed. I think that I would only raise the issue if I were the parent of an early developer, as i don't recall this being an issue in my DC's primary. I'm not worried enough as an issue from my experience to sign a petition, sorry. On a legal basis, I recall something about mixed gender sibling children able to share a bedroom until the age of 10, so im sure any legal argument may draw on this precedent

BelleandBeast · 09/03/2018 17:11

I agree, they have PHSE lessons and know all about sex at year four but still get changed in front of the boys. Confused

Nuffaluff · 09/03/2018 17:13

At our school we have separate boys and girl’s changing from year 4

Ca55andraMortmain · 09/03/2018 17:14

At the school where I work this just wouldn't be possible. Our hall has massive floor to ceiling windows which look out onto the playground so they'd get no privacy changing in there. We have a policy of not having staff in the children's toilets with the door shut so no privacy that way either. They therefore need to change in the classroom with the teacher until they are old enough to get changed unsupervised (in our school y4).

AlonsoTigerHeart · 09/03/2018 17:14

I think its fine for the infants/lower juniors to change together, so i won't sign. Most change in the class with teacher supervision, theres might be no room or enough staff to segregate.
Yrar5/6- they should get separated- my niece is in year 6 and the girls get changed in the class first then the boys after

Origamoo · 09/03/2018 17:14

At my school we tend to do separate changing from about year 4, in my/our experience that seems to be the year when some of them start to become a bit self conscious.

AlonsoTigerHeart · 09/03/2018 17:15

^^
Awfully written, apologies.

Origamoo · 09/03/2018 17:17

It is hard in practical terms though - in our case it works because the whole year group does PE on the same morning, so we’re able to have one classroom for the girls’ changing and another for the boys. If you just had one class doing PE at a time, or in a one form entry school, then it can be hard to do. There isn’t always a spare room/adult to supervise. Sending half a class to the toilets doesn’t really work either.

ReceptionTA · 09/03/2018 17:19

The school I work in have separate changing from Y4.

There is always one child who accidentally takes their pants off in Reception. None of the other DC care less. Occasionally a girl will go home and say they saw X's penis when it's happened, but when we explain to the parents the circumstances they've always been understanding.

The boys making fun of a girls body is obviously never acceptable, but I don't, personally, think it's reason for children to change separately in Reception. Obviously a conversation needs to be had with the whole class about that not being acceptable.

SocksRock · 09/03/2018 17:22

Ours change separately from Y4. It’s only a half form entry school so they are severely limited on space and they still manage. The boys change in the hall, and the girls in the classroom, and then join the boys.

ReceptionTA · 09/03/2018 17:30

I'm on my phone, so apologies for all the mistakes...I won't be signing the petition.

I had no issue with my DD getting changed with the boys in KS1. I did have issue with her Y5 teacher telling parents their DDs should wear crop tops for modesty and in preparation for a bra (DD was completely flat chested) I felt my DD was being body shamed, the way it was handled. Obviously my DDs body is not for others "consumption" but neither should a child in Early Years be ashamed of their body. At this age children are children.

The biggest problem for children that age getting changed for PE is putting their socks on independently.

Original poster
MiniqBrown · 09/03/2018 17:53

Thanks for the responses.

I think the main point is there is no option for kids who don't want to be undressing in front of each other. Assuming 'kids are kids' doesnt work for everyone. Sexual abuse exists and is not as uncommon as people like to think- the needs of those kids are being ignored or worse they are singled out and seen to be obviously different by changing alone.

Also I personally am not okay with my DD just seeing boys penises like that's ok, she does not need to be familiar with that part of anatomy. It's good to tell the kids to treat each other with respect with regards to body shaming and making fun of each other but why not help them learn this by not giving them opportunities in a time of extreme vulnerability that can leave lasting emotional scars.

Drawing the distinction at a certain year group seems arbitrary to me. If it will be done anyway then starting earlier doesn't pose any more problems then schools would have to deal with eventually. Having separate changing is the only way that everybody has that security regardless of their personal circumstances.

I have heard of screens that some schools have that are easily assembled and disassembled- aware that budgets are tight but it benefits the whole school.

OP posts:
AlonsoTigerHeart · 09/03/2018 18:05

My school cant afford staff let alone screens

grasspigeons · 09/03/2018 18:09

I would sign for year 3 onwards but I think younger than that it is appropriate for children to change together so I won't sign the petition.

PotteringAlong · 09/03/2018 18:14

Also I personally am not okay with my DD just seeing boys penises like that's ok, she does not need to be familiar with that part of anatomy

Does she not have a dad then? A brother?

PotteringAlong · 09/03/2018 18:16

And yes, before it gets jumped on, I’m aware that not everyone has a brother or a father in their lives, but it would still be unusual to have never seen anyone of the opposite sex naked (ie at swimming for sample)

Whisperquietly · 09/03/2018 18:21

I see no issue with my 5 year old having mixed changing, so not signing.

ReceptionTA · 09/03/2018 18:36

Also I personally am not okay with my DD just seeing boys penises like that's ok, she does not need to be familiar with that part of anatomy.

What's wrong with a girl seeing a penis? My DD was still sharing a bedroom with her 6yo brother when she was 4yo. There is a HUGE difference between sexual abuse, and seeing a classmates pants\ genitals briefly.

I've worked with DC who have been sexually abused, and at this age, separate changing for boys and girls would have made not one ounce of difference to their wellbeing.

I think it's standard that from Y4 there may be a need...I'd be interested to hear from pArents who say their DC still change together in Y4/5

Original poster
MiniqBrown · 09/03/2018 18:51

Totally respect not wanting to sign. Some parents don't think it's acceptable for children to be comfortable looking at each other's genitalia and having their genitals looked at. It's the opposite of what I'm teaching my daughter and it's unethical for these views to be ignored.

From my own personal experience there have been Huge issues for child victims of sexual abuse and PE changing- glad this hasn't been the experience for the child you work with but it is for Many others.

OP posts:
RavenWings · 09/03/2018 18:55

I don't see why kids in the UK don't just come in in school tracksuits/PE kit on PE day tbh. That's what we do in Ireland.

Loraline · 09/03/2018 18:59

I don't see why kids in the UK don't just come in in school tracksuits/PE kit on PE day tbh. That's what we do in Ireland.

In my DS school they do that from year 1 upwards but in reception they come in uniform and change because learning to do it independently is part of the Early Years Curriculum

halulat · 09/03/2018 19:01

Many schools separate the last year or two- if they have a spare member of staff available to oversee each group -but in a small school this could be an issue.

RavenWings · 09/03/2018 19:01

In my DS school they do that from year 1 upwards but in reception they come in uniform and change because learning to do it independently is part of the Early Years Curriculum

Fair enough. Still seems like changing is a bit of unnecessary timewasting though during the school day!

WeAllHaveWings · 09/03/2018 19:13

Excessive teaching to a 4 year old that your body is so private you cant possibly change in a safe place, for PE in school in front of a boy (both wearing underwear and vests) is probably more harmful than helpful. They need to learn in what context it is ok.

It is also simply not practical. Would you be happy with your dd changing in the hallway where anyone could be passing? Or do you mean in the pe hall which wouldn't be free as the previous class would be still be in it. Where are the teachers coming from to supervise this separate changing?

Perhaps over 8 years old there could be some sort of screen, but even at that age, until secondary, suitable shorts style underwear and t-shirt vests will protect anyone's modesty. Under 8 it is simple not required.

I wont be signing your petition. You are aiming for 200 signatures from randoms on the internet, do you really think that is going to influence your school?

SimonBridges · 09/03/2018 19:15

I teach reception. Very occasional someone will take their pant off by mistake. No one has ever noticed or commented.

They are innocent children. A 4 year old might notice that another child has a penis or vagina just like they might notice that Sophie has curly hair.

As for not wanting your child to see a penis. They are just part of the anatomy. I saw my dad naked. I was not traumatised but equally I wasn’t frightened the first time I saw a naked male outside the family.

I completely agree with children of about year 4 up getting changed separately as girls are getting their periods and both genders are becoming aware of the differences.