Body Privacy in primary schools PE

[MiniqBrown]

Hi Guys!!

I raised an issue with my 4yo school about body privacy in PE- turns out in most schools across the UK girls and boys must change in front of each other until year 6! I was unimpressed as my dd tends to accidentally take her pants off whenever she gets changed! And there was also a girl in her class whose body was made fun of by boys and I thought it was unacceptable. Not to mention I got my period in year 4 and was wearing a bra- cannot imagine the humiliation of having to change in front of boys back then!

I started a petition to have a policy which makes schools allow separate changing- girls in classroom, boys in hall kind of thing, nothing drastic! If you care about this issue please sign the petition and pass it round. Trying to get the Secretary of Education to respond and it seems they only respond to numbers!

bit.ly/changePE

Happy to be a part of the mumsnet crew!!

Still seems like changing is a bit of unnecessary timewasting though during the school day!

It takes my class 5 minutes. Literally 5 minutes. It is invaluable in teaching them to get changed, follow instructions and look after their own stuff.
Many children are still dressed by their parents and need to learn the independence.
I’m willing to spend 10 minutes a week on this.

Your dd will not be seeing any other pupil's penis . Tell her to keep her pants on, you can be confident everybody else will be doing the same.

I think KS3, so year 5+6, is a sensible age for start introducing the idea of separate changing possibilities. I dont think it is a good idea to start segregating children younger than that.

It takes my class 5 minutes. Literally 5 minutes. It is invaluable in teaching them to get changed, follow instructions and look after their own stuff.
Many children are still dressed by their parents and need to learn the independence.
I’m willing to spend 10 minutes a week on this.

Up to yourself. I feel that my class learn to keep track of their own belongings pretty well by minding anything they bring to school - bags, lunches, putting books away. Similarly following instructions they learn across all subjects.

I'm glad I live in another country and don't need to manage them changing, but it's horses for courses isn't it.

Ks3 is year 7-9 (11 to 14 years old). Did you mean ks2?

It takes my class 5 minutes. Literally 5 minutes. It is invaluable in teaching them to get changed, follow instructions and look after their own stuff.
Many children are still dressed by their parents and need to learn the independence.
I’m willing to spend 10 minutes a week on this.

Yep. The amount of random jumpers and polo shirts the kids go home with belonging to each other suggests it's worth learning. My 4 year old definitely still struggles with polo shirt buttons too so it's good practice.

Reception is so play based anyway that I'm confident that he'll manage to learn to read and write despite 10 mins a week being spent changing

‘Some parents don't think it's acceptable for children to be comfortable looking at each other's genitalia and having their genitals looked at. It's the opposite of what I'm teaching my daughter and it's unethical for these views to be ignored.‘

Children very rarely remove all their clothes getting changed in PE. They are so focused and busy getting changed they don’t spent too much time looking at each other. Getting changed isn’t sitting around looking at each other’s genetalia. That is a total overreaction.

Your point about sexual abuse is important but a child needs to be taught that accidentally seeing their friends bum isn’t the same as being harmed.

Older children maybe, not Reception aged children.

However I’ve just read your petition page and your argument is a lot more persuasive and compelling on there!

BossWitch
Yes I meant KS2. Thanks

No I am not looking for 200 signatures from internet randos. I am trying for 100,000 signatures for parents who care about respect and privacy. I have written to MPs and the Secretary of Education. I have collected studies and research.

My aim is not to have people who aren't concerned with the needs others if they're seen to be minority views troll the concept. My aim is to create options for those impacted by this issue. If you don't want to sign, don't, no need to tell me about it. But please respect people who have been hurt by the inability of schools to take body privacy seriously. Whether you think harm happens or not is irrelevant. It does. I have proof.

I thought mumsnet was supposed to be a supportive forum for parents to express concerns in a helpful environment. Disappointed to see that isn't the case with some people.

parents who care about respect and privacy.

Most parents obviously care about respect and privacy and it is offensive to suggest they don’t, but it needs to be in context, your response would be proportionate if the 4yos were running about the class room starkers flashing their bits at each other, they are not. They are in appropriate modesty protecting pants and vests.

I'm 34 now, I remember getting changed in the classroom with boys and girls all through primary school. I don't remember noticing anyone else's body parts, was not in any way traumatised and can't think of any other way it could have been done as there wasn't a changing room or any other space that one gender could have gone into that wasnt being used for teaching.

This does seem like a non-issue to me.

No because I think it's utterly ridiculous.

Girls seeing a willie being deemed as harmful is laughable. It's healthy and part of life. I would hate my children to be gender segregated prior to puberty.

And why exactly should be boys be shoved into the corridor? Why not girls?

Whether you think harm happens or not is irrelevant. It does. I have proof.

Can you link to the proof please?

I personally fail to see how seeing another child in their vest and pants when you are 4 is even a vague problem.

I have no issue with girls and boys getting changed together in infants and lower juniors.

I think British prudishness is weird and unhealthy, generally.

I wouldn't sign either. After y4 then yes, but not for young dc. Imo that is the opposite of protecting them. It isn't healthy to teach dc that are years away from puberty, let alone any sexual feelings that they shouldn't see each other in underwear.

At 5 many still have natural, innocent curiosity about bodies, and I'd hate to send out the message that was so wrong they should only be in the same room fully clothed. Or dc have siblings of the opposite sex close in age, and again implying they shouldn't see each other purely because an adult said so is wrong in many ways.

I also agree with a pp, ime it would make no odds with victims of sexual abuse. Any child that young with a known history is going to need very specific support and arrangements across the board.

And at reception age especially open changing where staff can see everyone, offers opportunities to spot possible issues far easier than they could trying to watch two groups.

It's i agree that segregation is likely to achieve the exact opposite of your goal. It will cause problems, not fix them. It's unhealthy and breeds an unhealthy attitude to bodies and nudity. It sends the message that bodies are shameful.

It's a body.

The children will be concentrating on getting changed and what is there to see apart from a flash of a penis, but the risk is low.

The school I work in has two stream entry, so the boys and the girls get changed in one classroom each. Not sure how it would work otherwise...

I too think that this sends the message that bodies are shameful, and from your DD's reaction (quoted on the petition site) it sounds like she has absorbed this idea, which is a pity at such a young age.

I'm happy for infants and lower juniors to change together. As some children start to hit puberty, which can happen from Y5, it makes sense for them to have separate changing facilities.

I’ll definitely sign it op - we’ll done to you for the petition, I think it’s a fabulous idea!

We had to undress in our classrooms, at our tables, up to and including Year 6. This was in a mixed primary school.

I started my periods when I was 9, and had had womanly curves (including boobs), and body hair since just before I turned 8 years old. I was also the tallest in my year, and used to sweat badly and need to use deodorant. I looked so much older than my class mates, in fact I looked about 14/15 when I was 9. It was torture for me to undress in front of boys. This was a primary school in an Inner London borough, and many of us were au fait with a lot of sexual language, and there wasn’t a great deal of naivety! I used to have some of the boys staring at my boobs, and saying very inappropriate things about my body and what they’d like to do to it. This then used to continue in the playground, where they would try and touch my boobs, and try to throw money down my top, with the expectation that if it ‘nestled’ in my bra, then they would have paid for a ‘quick feel.’ I never let them do this, and it was very humiliating and scary. I used to throw the money back at their balls!

I don’t know what other schools do, or if any still do this, but in my school we had to do our P.E lessons up to and including Year 2, in our vests and knickers/pants! I thought this was very inappropriate.

Nope
you are barking
bodies are natural and normal
kids should learn early that they own their own one
and get on with getting set for the next class

why would you project your shame onto your child?

Don't agree.

Year 4 and up yes, but reception?

Why is it unacceptable for a 4 year old to see another 4 year old's body? There is absolutely categorically nothing sexual or rude in a 4 year olds body or mind so why on earth would they need to be segregated so young??!

I suspect most schools start in y3 because that is the age that kids don't have to be supervised while getting changed. How can one adult supervise 2 groups of kids?

I think that Reception is OTT but y3 is about right as it's the sort of age that kids consistently use the toilet and changing room of their sex.