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Original poster

Do children with pushier parents achieve more?

64 replies

tortoiseshell · 31/08/2006 09:27

Do you think that children with pushier parents achieve more? I've always gone along the 'let them be children' route, but am now wondering if in fact I should have being doing more English/maths with them at home. Both my eldest two are very bright imo, and ds1 can read fluently at the end of reception, but I just wonder if I should have done more with him at home. Dd is just 3, and knows half her letters, can write her name etc, but compared to a lot of children of friends is behind. Now I know that the important thing for starting school is to be out of nappies, able to talk, and to sit still - she's fine at all that, but I don't want her to be 'behind' simply because of my failings as a parent. She's starting school in September 07.

What my children are fab at is imagination - they are both highly creative, and what I'm hoping you'll all say is that that's because they've been allowed to play and not been pushed!

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 31/08/2006 09:31

People think I'm pushing DS1 - but he just has a natural aptitude and interest in academic things (well, as academic as a 2yo gets He's not doing algebra...).

Children are all different, that's all. She won't be behind at school - she's got a year to go before she starts and may well be creative and ahead of the rest of the class too by then

orangegiraffe · 31/08/2006 09:34

I would say that I encourage my children rather than push them.I think there is a big difference between the two.

ocd · 31/08/2006 09:35

npo you need to read" freakanomics" ont he issue

zippy539 · 31/08/2006 09:36

This has been on my mind the last few days because ds has just started in reception and I was horified to discover that half his class can already read, count in mulitples of two etc. However, I am sticking to my guns. I would rather have spent the last five years talking to him, doing things which we enjoyed etc than pushing him to learn stuff that he'll only have to do all over again at school (ie learn to read, write, conjugate latin verbs etc ).

I know loads of folk will come back and say 'but dd LOVED learning to read at the age of eighteen months' but it just wans't for me. This way, I hope he wont get bored of school before he reaches the end of his first year.

Could yet be proved wrong of course.

Pinkchampagne · 31/08/2006 09:42

No I don't think the children with pushy parents always achieve more. They need time to just be children & have fun at home. They can learn a lot through play & through you talking to them about things. IME if children are constantly pushed at home as well as at school, they often start to shut off at a certain age.

MrsFio · 31/08/2006 09:43

no and I dont push my children either. i want them to enjoy being children

edam · 31/08/2006 09:44

Agree with Cod, Freakonomics really good on this. Pushy parents may make their kids do things early, but IMO it tends to level out - being able to read early doesn't really affect how well you do as an adult. Unless there are SEN to take into account, they all learn to read in the end.

Pushy parents may also turn their kids off learning. There's a huge difference between responding to a child who is particularly interested in x and getting into some sort of mad competition about whose child can do what.

I've got one friend, for instance, who I love dearly. But entertained that at toddler group she couldn't resist taking over and 'helping' her ds to do really beautiful drawings because she's very artistic. I just let ds scribble. He'll learn how to do stick men or whatever at his own pace.

Btw, am impressed that your dd can write her name - ds is just three and is nowhere near doing that!

colditz · 31/08/2006 09:44

Probably they do but I don't care, I love my sone because of who he is, not because of what he can do.,

colditz · 31/08/2006 09:45

FWIW I learned to read at three but my mother said she taught me in self defence because I didn't sleep.

edam · 31/08/2006 09:46

at Colditz.

Holidaymum · 31/08/2006 09:48

Nah they get to 13-14 and rebel like crazy! Higher chance of becoming drop outs imo! No proof of this though

batters · 31/08/2006 09:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

expatinscotland · 31/08/2006 09:59

So what if someone 'achieves' more? Depends on what your definition of achievement is. For me, it's that my kids are happy w/themselves and not harming others. Anything else is just an aside.

Greensleeves · 31/08/2006 10:04

No, I don't think children of pushier parents do better. I think children who feel secure and have high self-esteem do better in the long run.

Original poster
tortoiseshell · 31/08/2006 10:17

Thanks for responses - cod what is freakonomics?

By pushy I mean, teaching them to read really early, not because they're interested but because they want them to be the best. And by achieve more, what I mean is, if they're pushed to begin with, then put in a higher group in reception, will that widen the gap? (By being in a higher group they're challenged more, therefore learn faster, and if you're in a lower group because you've not done it so much before starting, will they end up not getting on as well as they should?).

I know lots of chidren learn to read early because they love it (I was one, but was bored rigid in reception - my mum said I read Alice in Wonderland before starting school, and then couldn't really see the point of reading the word 'is' and 'a', but I was definitely pushed, I don't think I 'understood' what I was reading iyswim - just knew the words). I just don't want my dd to suffer because I've got the balance wrong!

OP posts:
Piffle · 31/08/2006 10:22

FWIW my ds was reading extremely fluently aged 3-4. He was very numerate and bright (later told G+T)
It made the first 3 years of primary school very hard on him, he was bored out of his mind and the school struggled to meet his needs as rightly the children who could not yet read and write and count got the majority of the teaching.
As ds has got older I've rasied my expectations for him, but at the end of the day he's a nearly 13 yr old boy who still needs to be a kid most of the time.

NotAnOtter · 31/08/2006 10:39

gosh writing her name at 3 !!! My ds is 3.5 and very good at scrawl!

snorkle · 31/08/2006 10:56

Message withdrawn

catrin · 31/08/2006 11:00

Reception is about so much more than academics. The social side is so important, IMO much more so than reading etc. Unless a child is happy, confident in their surroundings, able to have fun, be creative and imaginative then they are not going to learn effectively anyway. IME (foundation stage teacher) so called pushy parents are v concerned about their child getting onto the next level of reading book, harder maths etc but do not think it is as much of a problem that their child cannot share, is overly bossy, cannot use toilet confidently etc. There is a fine line between pushing and helping. Helping parents are lovely. Pushy parents are scary.

electrica77 · 31/08/2006 11:05

I think its very British to consider it wrong to 'push' children to achieve more. We don't like raising our head above the parapet in this country as its seen as slightly distasteful- having ideas above our station or bragging or something. We find it hard to be proud of our achievements and intelligence in the way that the French do (for instance).I think as long as the child is happy and not being coerced, its all healthy stuff- the problem comes when schools fail to back parents up or when parents lose sight of the child and focus on perfection. I used to do tutoring, and some of the parents would hire me to 'improve' the grades of kids who were regularly attaining A's and B's. The same parents would invariably end the contract early (usually within 6 weeks) because they would never be happy with what you were doing (not enough homework wa a common complaint) and had seen no 'improvement'. I don't think they understood that education is not always about prizes, grades and exams, its also about enjoyment and learning to think critically.

Twiglett · 31/08/2006 11:09

I do push my children

but I push them to be social ... I try to teach them how to make friends, to be nice, to care for other people and their environment, to make the right choices

I try not to push academically ... although occasionally get narked when DS whinges he can't do something (and reading currently can be painful because he's in one of those moods).. but I try to teach him that everybody learns something new every single day and I follow his interests

.. my kids are bright (I think) but I also believe STRONGLY that they have to learn how to do things for themselves ... that's the skill they need to survive .. I think kids of pushy parents either rebel or fall flat when its suddenly not spoon-fed to them

joelallie · 31/08/2006 11:42

".. that's because they've been allowed to play and not been pushed! "

Happy now ??

I take the same tack. If kids want to be encouraged to read etc they will ask you. Supply them with the material by answering their questions to the best of your ability, and having books about to give them the message that books are fun and a vital part of life, read to them all the time, do sums with them as they become relevant to everyday life.

Electra - Not being pushy is not the same as not caring about academic abilities. I care passionately that my kids are intellectual beings and that have an open mind and an independence of thought. I think this can be crushed by subjecting them to an early regime of hot-housing. My eldest is 9 and although he can read reasonably well he doesn't really like to - I would rather carry on reading to him the books that he really enjoys and challenge him intellectually than force him to read easier books that would bore him - the final result of him being an enthusiastic reader as an adult is much much more important than his SATS result now. I would like my kids to get reasonable qualifications but only because it will make life easier for them - not for their own value.

electrica77 · 31/08/2006 12:08

i take your point joelallie- one of the boys i tutored was a grammar school kid with excellent gcse's but I literally had to handhold him to get through his A-level. It transpired his dad was doing most of the work for him. I had to teach him basic essay and exam skills. It was obvious he was really bright as he got some outrageous marks like 98% after a while, he just had the independence and common sense of a whelk!

Jimjams2 · 31/08/2006 12:18

From lots of observation I would say parents who encourage increase the likelihood of their child achieving. Parents who push decrease the chances of their child achieving.

And by achieving I mean a child grows up to have done the best academically that they are capable of, and secure in who they are, well-rounded, stable, and happy.

TheRealCam · 31/08/2006 12:23

Agree with JimJams

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