July born child

[JD03]

Hi,

I was just wondering if anyone had decided to move their child from State to private to help their summer borns?

I believe many people do but not me. Both of mine were summer born and it has made them real fighters because they had to work harder than others to keep up. It did take a number of years now but the work ethic was installed at an early age. All those little Leos must be fighers for a reson. I worried myself silly when they were younger though and gave them extra help myself by reading to them all the time and getting them to read with me as often as possible. Looking back it was probably all they needed.

I did do a lot of research into the private option for that reason though.

DS1 did struggle at first, he slowly caught up and now he is in top sets at state Secondary. It is possible to do it.

DD was born in July (3rd youngest in the class) and managed to get level 5s in her KS2 SATS (3rd highest marks in class for maths) and level 6A in English and Maths by the end of year 7 at a satisfactory comprehensive school. So it isn't necessarily a foregone conclusion that your child will struggle. How old is your child?

DS1 also top sets at secondary (Year 8), but did not really get interested until year 5 (also got all 5s), DD just beginning to make the turn in Year 4 and she is working very hard to claw her way up there. Both were in the lower groups until the end of KS1. DS got 2C for writing and finished Year 7 with 6A and again in a comp.

very late August son struggled in KS1, now top sets KS3

Both mine are August one right at the end of Aug. Its one of the reasons why I went down the private route. I thought that the smaller classes and more individual attention would be beneficial. I also felt that it was less overwhelming going into a class of 14 than a class of 30. One other consideration was that they all started full time in Septin YR in the private school which I think for my children was better than starting later in the year and being behind half the class.

Oldest in now Y5 and youngest Yr1. The older one is now in line with his classmates I would say the younger one is still a bit behind.

My DC is in year 1 (state) and a late July birthday (so only a few weeks past 5th birthday and many friends of about the same age are just starting reception). I worried a great deal about this as there is a lot of research on lower chances of academic success for summer children later in life with the theory being that children who start at a lower level through age get written off/write themselves off as not bright when the truth is they are younger. I was/am determined to make sure this doesn't happen for us.

We haven't done any extra work as such but I made sure that we read together every day and that I kept an eye on what they were doing in school so I could spot any problems and give extra help if needed. E.g. if they were learning to count backwards we would play "blast off' games (10, 9, 8 etc) so I could check that there were no problems. This is obviously not the same as a smaller class for the whole school day but has helped in ensuring that any issues were picked up quickly. For my DC the only really issue was that writing was a bit iffy as fine motor control wasn't so good so I've thought up excuses to write together (thank you cards, menus for dinner etc) to deal with problems.

Other than that we've had no problems academically. In fact DC does sessions with Yr 2 every day (phonics and reading) and is the only Yr 1 child to do so, so my worries about being left behind were unfounded. The only problem I would say is socially there is a huge gap between a 5 yr old with a 2 yr old sibling (in our case) and a 6 yr old with older siblings (sadly lots of the class). Last year the school tried putting DC in Yr 1 for some sessions but socially there was no way it was going to work so they had to stop.

So from our experience we've had no need to go private but have been fortunate in having the time to monitor things and a child who was ready to learn.

This isn't someithing that I've ever worried about. My dd is August and seems to be getting on fine so far. Granted, she's in reception so spends most of her time playing at the moment. Should I be worrying about it?

It didn't help that DS1 (Late June birthday) immediately made friends with a September born boy, the difference was quite marked at 4. The September born boy had obviously been at pre-school longer.

Ive got dcs at either end of the spectrum my dd is july born youngest in her year 4 class and ds is october one of the oldest in his year 2 class. My dd did have problems when she first started school with delayed speech but thrugh hard work she overcame this and is now working at level 5 in year 4 for all subjects.

Likewise ds is working at level 4 in year 2 and this is at a state primary school that for 12 months was in special measures so no i dont think there is a need for private schoool for summer babies.

Thank you all soo much for your replies.

My DS turned 7 in July and has justed started in yr3. At the end of last term he was given an overall 2b, so he is doing ok, however, my big concern is that he is starting to say things like 'he is the least smartest in the class' etc which has really worried me as he is a happy, confident little boy and I don't want that to change.

He seems to be comparing himself to others in his class who write more lines than him etc, and is starting to think he is stupid which really worries me.

I asked him in a lighted hearted way if there is anything he would change about school and in a shot he said more chance for me to ask questions and ask for help in class !!

I just think that maybe smaller class size would be better for him?

He enjoys school otherwise and has lots of friends, doing well at his sports etc, I'm just really worried that confidence is really being knocked, which I think is more imprtant at this stage?

Sorry, I had assumed you were a parent thinking state/private for a child starting reception next year.

I would be concerned about his self-perception as "not-bright" as it's easy for that to become as self-fulfilling prophecy if he is feels it's not worth trying. What does his teacher think, is his perception of his place in the class accurate?

Its really encouraging to hear all your children doing so well!! Did you find that they thought they were behind or stupid for a while whilst they caught up, in terms of how they compared themselves to their peers?

Chazsgoldattitude - are you happy that you made that choice if you don't mind me asking?

Again, thanks soo much dont want to cause alarm to anyone who does have summer born children by the way!!

Tessdurberyfield, that's exactly what I'm, worried about, he is not normally like this, and is outgoing, happy etc, it's just when he starts tho make comments I start worrying!!

I spoke a number of times with teacher and she says nothing to worry about, but then has major silences when before hanswering iyswim, if she is soo sure , why the pauses and no real answers!! Very frustrating as I am not trying to catch teachers out or expect guarantees of their results at the end of the year or anything, just roughly where he is in the class and they will not give me an answer!

His class is particularly bright, capable, friendly and engaged (their words) so I guess she is inferring that he is doing ok in a class of high achievers??!!

Safe to say, I don;t want my son to feel he bottom of anything at this stage in his life, and if they are focussing on trying to have an exceptional year, he may miss out? I do think he will be one of the children who catches up eventually, he is bright and switched on , nut that nagging self-fulfilling prophecy is very much in my mind at the mo!!

Sorry for brain dump :)......

I am happy with the choice because it did turn out that my sons needed a bit more support and I think being in a class of 14 with a teacher and sometimes a TA as well meant they weren't left floundering. Another thing that has helped with the older one is that they have different subject teachers for most subjects (now in Yr5) so even if one subject is hard for him, he can be good in other subject e.g. English isn't his strongest point but he is reasonable at French and good at Science.

Although the school is academic there is a strong emphasis on sport and music too so you get kudos for being in the choir or on a team.

However, his school is quite competative at times so you do have look at each school and decide if the atmosphere is right for your child.

Some children do need support with their confidence whatever school they are in and I know DS1 did even though the school was helping him. So even if you find yourself with a great school you will still have to deal with some of these crises of confidence. That's when a good home school partnership is important. DS1 had a meltdown over one subject last year because the teacher thought he wasn't trying rather than struggling a bit. I wrote a note to the teacher explaining the problem and the teacher changed his approach with DS1 immediately giving him more support and marking a bit more "kindly" until DS1's confidence picked up again.

What I am trying to get at is that private schools with small class sizes can be good for confidence and support but only if there is the back up from the teaching staff to provide support where needed and to understand each childs individual needs. I highly competative academic results are everything private school would not necessarily be an improvement on his current situation.

I think you should be pushing his teacher for more practical support, if you really don't feel you are getting it, then look at other schooling options private and state. I would also look if there are any practical problems that your DS is having that could be holding him back. DS1 struggled with writing because he had poor motor control. We arranged for him to see an Occupational Therapist which helped a lot. His writing is better and he doesn't trip all the time any more.

A highly not "I highly"

What helps in many schools now as reception and Year 1 are much more learning through play, which really suits summer borns and the academic side is left more to age 7 when most are more ready. This has certainly helped mine and my eldest who even in year 2 was a bit behind although an average 2b (so not too bad) but it was a clever year is a right smart alec now in Year 8. He was a great swimmer from a young age so always had something that he was good at so not to lose his confidence. He could outswim many older kids and my DD was very good at drama and has already had two professional jobs by Year 4 so again she has never lacked in confidence. The academic side comes later for some kids and when it does boy it kicks in and it is not worth hurrying. Late developers blossom at a great time and I would just not mention KS1 SATs because they really are no indicator has to how a kid will perform at 11 or 16. Look at the amount of summer borns that make grammar school and surprise the older peers (and their parents). One of the parents was really shocked when my DS made the top stream at comp because she remembered him being in remedial for phonics in KS1. Just dont make a big deal out of it. Class size meant that my DCs mixed with a lot of other summer borns and so there were plenty in the same boat rather than being the only ones and to be honest neither really noticed any difference as I did not make a big deal out of it. Therefore not really convinced that a smaller class would have made any difference, if anything it helped having a bigger class from a social point of view.

One thing that should really help is in my DS's year there were four boys including my DS in reception who were in a special group for phonics (in his day there was less learning through play). One got into a very competitive Birmingham grammer school, and the other three are all in the top stream at the above-average comp (one at the comp got 7A for Maths at the end of Year 7 - my DS has already been to Birmingham University sessions for Science as one of only four kids in the Year because he is so good). All behind in KS1, all really kicked in about Year 5. The ones now requiring special needs include one or two Sept-born kids. All of them are awful at football though so perhaps that is one area that they never really catch up! They are also all quite small compared to their peers but really helps being small for a climbing wall so make sure climbing is always a birthday treat. The little ones were straight up the wall whereas the bigger ones were struggling.

The teacher will never tell you where your DS is in relation to the rest of the class as that is confidential information. She should tell you his levels and where he is in comparison to national expectations- which is a different thing altogether.,he could be in a really bright class, or the opposite- but it's not down to you to know which- teacher can't tell you levels of the other children in the class. (I teach in a sate school, so don't know enough about private to answer your original question!)

Thanks CtirusyOne, but I don't want to know the names of the children just how is doing across the class, upper, middle, lower level type view, not exact positioning or anything, I don't understand why a parent doesn't have a right to know this information?

The general consensus seems to be that they do catch up (and often surpass) their older peers everntually, so maybe less to worry about academically, still not sure if I have a problem redropping confidence though, can anyone tell me if they children had a drop in confidence whilst they were 'behind' until they 'caught up' with their peers eventually, shoudl I be worrying?

PS - apologies for appalling spelling!!!

I thought (very briefly until we saw the real cost) about private for DS, who is mid August born, but for smaller classes to stretch him rather than to protect him.

At aged 5 he was bright but immature and used to cry easily at school - they soon grow out of that. After a great teacher in Yr2 he loved school and his only moans have been:

Often the smallest in class as friends all hit their growth spurts earlier (until he turned 16 when he grew like a weed!)
Taking 11+ aged 10y2m seemed unfair - but he passed.
Friends getting all the best jobs before he was 16
Friends passing driving tests before he can start to learn
Friends able to go to clubs etc (he went t0 3 festivals though this Summer)

So nothing major at all :)

You could always move to NI.
Our Sch cut off for age is First of July do your DC born in July August would be the oldest in their years!

I don't mean to be a harbinger of doom (!) but I do think that there is a very real birth disadvantage on average e.g. the report here press release , report , bbc
Of course none of this determines your own child's life chances but equally all of the positive stories cannot remove the fact that statistically you are less likely to go to university etc if your birthday is in August rather than September. Interestingly the report says that parents of summer borns tends to produce a richer home learning environment than autumn borns (though it doesn't eliminate the difference) so people are responding to the problem.

JD03 I thought you might find this interesting from the report "Their lower performance on cognitive tests also appears to translate into the perceptions that August-born children have about their own academic ability. Figure 3.6 shows that children born in August score themselves significantly lower on a scholastic competence scale at age 8 and an ability beliefs scale at age 14 than children born in September."

Personally I think it is as well to be aware of this. Of course your own child may not have problems but birth seems to have a large enough influence on future outcomes that it's worth knowing the common problems and doing what you can to compensate.