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Original poster

Seperate changing rooms?

50 replies

MarmaladeSun · 14/01/2006 22:55

Hi. As some of you may know I am not happy with my children's school ATM (see 'Police Involvement' thread). Further to all that hassle, DD1 came home on Friday more than a bit upset that her teacher had made all the children get changed all together in the same classroom. They used to seperate boys from girls which protected their modesty a bit, but now this teacher says they have to get undressed in their places (which are boy girl boy girl). DD1 is 11, and wearing a bra and is very conscious of her body. Several of the girls have their periods and I think they find it painfully embarrassing having to change in full view of the boys in their class. The school has got changing rooms but use them as a store cupboard for PE equipment! What would you do? Also, DS teacher told his class in December that Santa Claus didn't really exist! (DS is 8). Seeing that some of the kids were horrified at this, he tried to backtrack by saying 'well he does exist but he doesn't deliver your presents...he takes over your parents' minds and makes them buy the presents and put them under the tree'!!!(Bear in mind DS still believes!)
I don't want to march in there with a catalogue of complaints in view of the situation on going, but I am really not happy at the moment with this school.

OP posts:
starlover · 14/01/2006 22:57

i would definitely complain... it really isn't on to make 11 year olds share a changing room IMO

edam · 14/01/2006 22:59

The changing thing is completely unacceptable for children of this age. Bet the Governers, PTA, and LEA would be interested to hear about that one.

Original poster
MarmaladeSun · 14/01/2006 23:02

That's what I thought. It's not even a changing room...it's their classroom. When DD complained to the teacher that it wasn't fair (she won't even let ME in when she's changing in her bedroom as she is very self conscious) the teacher gave her a warning!

OP posts:
yoyo · 14/01/2006 23:19

If I was you I would contact the Head and the Governors to complain. I do not think it is acceptable at this age for children to change together. DD is in Yr 5 and they change in different rooms although this a recent change (I would have contacted the school if this wasn't the case). In our case the girls change in the "library" and the boys in the classroom - I know that DD would refuse to do PE if this was not the case (and I would support her).

As regards your other concerns, if you are not comfortable contacting the Head with your concerns then do speak to your Parent Governor. I am one and would always raise any concerns in our meetings.

Redtartanlass · 14/01/2006 23:47

Marmalade, I know on your other thread you listed some reasons why you didn't want to move your kids from this shcool. But my God, it sounds awful, I really feel for you and your children. Good luck on this current problem, it's awful.

Blu · 14/01/2006 23:55

Can you and some other Mums of girls get together and make a deputation about this changing thing? It's REALLLY insensitive, and totally inappropriate for bra-wearing, menstruating girls.

Original poster
MarmaladeSun · 15/01/2006 10:34

Hi all. Problem is I don't really know any other Mums there. We live 15 miles from the school (it's the nearest Catholic school to where we live) so we drive in. All the others are local and walk in together. Plus we were latecomers to the school,having only been there a year whereas most of the Mums went to the school when they were kids themselves! So it's pretty cliquey. I moved the kis from the local school a year ago specifically to go to the Catholic school and now I am having these problems. DD is due to go to Upper school in September and she'd be devastated to have to move there with no class mates if you see what I mean.

OP posts:
Littlefish · 15/01/2006 10:40

We didn't have changing rooms at my last school, but the y5 and y6 girls or boys were allowed to change in the toilets if they wanted to. (They built new changing rooms recently).

I think your school is behaving unreasonably. The school should be providing an alternative, even if it's just the toilets.

Aloha · 15/01/2006 10:45

Is the religion the only reason you wanted the children to go there? Is it really enough reason for them to have to put up with this sort of thing? This school does not sound remotely adequate tbh. Why can't you take the children to church etc and send them to a school which is more sensitive to their needs. I think telling older girls and boys to change together and giving them a warning if they protest actually smacks of abuse to me. Male or female teacher?

Meanoldmummy · 15/01/2006 10:53

This sounds awful, I do sympathise. The changing thing must be something the girls realy dread. And the Santa Claus incident is just cruel IMO. I do hope you get some kind of resolution to the problems - I can understand you not wanting to move them at this point but it must be a strain for all of you. I went to a Catholic primary school for a while and remember some very questionable practices. My brother (aged 6) was made to stand in a bin for a whole afternoon because the teacher said "you are rubbish, you belong in the bin". The punishment for not bringing proper PE kit (which I didn't have because my parents were piss-poor at that time) was to stand on the hot pipes throughout the PE lesson. OTOH dh went to a Catholic primary school and was very happy indeed. I suppose they vary like any other... but the bad ones tend to be quite harsh and insensitive to the children's needs and vulnerabilities.

blueshoes · 15/01/2006 11:14

OMG to read this . Cruel and humiliating practice to expect pubescent girls to expose themselves to boys. And your dd was warned for complaining!!

Having read your "Police" thread, it seems to me that this school has a culture of disregarding children's feelings and being very cavalier about hurting them emotionally.

Marmalademum, if you have a choice at all, would you consider transferring? At the very least, if the school brushes this aside, I believe you are justified to bring this to the attention of a higher authority, Ofsted??

batters · 15/01/2006 11:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

stitch · 15/01/2006 12:14

complain, loudly and clearly until someone pays attetention.
go to the governors if yu have to.

Original poster
MarmaladeSun · 15/01/2006 20:47

Hi. Yes the reason Itransferred the children was because I wanted the kids to go to catholic school as we are catholics, and I have raised them as such. I am in no way devout but one of my main arguments with DH (who is C of E) was that catholic schools tended to come down very heavily on bullying (of which I have a true loathing). I went to catholic school myself. If I am honest a big part of it is that I know there would be ructions with my Mum if I 'turned my back' on the faith (anyone who isn't from a catholic background won't know about catholic guilt!!!!!)They went to a forces school in Germany, and then the 'normal' school here, both of which were appalling. Now this school is proving to be a let down too
The thing is, that apart from these incidents the kids are happier at this school than either of their previous 2, so w3hat do I do?
Aloha...female teacher.

OP posts:
stitch · 15/01/2006 22:48

complain, complain, and complain some more.

alexsmum · 15/01/2006 23:01

i think in would be home educating rather than send my children to this school.
they are not physically safe or looked after, their feelings are disregarded and disrespected and their innocence is taken from them.
what are the good things about this school?

Original poster
MarmaladeSun · 16/01/2006 22:17

I went to speakto DDs teacher today about this. She agreed that a lot of the girls were unhappy with the situation '...but it's mainly the girls who complain...the boys are happy cos they get a good look'!!! She also said that she hadn't implemented the rule, and that the PE teacher had done so because the class had been particularly noisy when changing before. She also said that she can't over ride another teacher's decision, but would speak to the other one 'softly softly'...however, if the said teacher doesn't agree to change it there is nothing she can do about it!
I know another girl's Mum wrote a letter of complaint about it today, so would I be justified in sending a letter in, saying that unless there were adequate changing facilities i.e girls and boys seperate, that I want my daughter excused from PE?
I spoke to the local authority today, who passed meon to the health and safety dept, and they said that 'all schools must provide changing areas with showers for year 7 and above (aged 11+)'. The problem is that although DD is 11, she is year 6 (she is one of the oldest in class). he did say though that it is highly unacceptable and inappropriate for children of that age to have to change together.
I think it is bloody cruel and quite frankly humiliating, and goes against everything I have taught my kids about protecting their own bodies and modesty.
Alexsmum...at the mo I am struggling to find anything good about the school.

OP posts:
kama · 16/01/2006 22:19

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Message withdrawn

alexsmum · 16/01/2006 22:19

marmalade listen to your instincts. i'm pretty sure they are telling you to look for somewhere new. whereabouts in the country are you by the way?

kama · 16/01/2006 22:20

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Message withdrawn

Caligula · 16/01/2006 22:21

Absolutely unacceptable. I'd just complain to OFSTED immediately without further ado. There's no point in even discussing it with people who would do something like this. If they don't realise it's utterly inappropriate, then you can't really assume that they're amenable to reason. Only a loon would think this was remotely OK.

Bozza · 16/01/2006 22:23

Yes you would be justified in writing a letter. Also I can see that the class teacher doesn't have authority over the PE teacher but surely the answer to that is to get an appt to see the head teacher. I would.

Original poster
MarmaladeSun · 16/01/2006 22:24

I'm so glad you all agree with me. I was starting to feel that I was paranoid, or that they would think I was just stirring it up. I am in Suffolk by the way.

OP posts:
frogs · 16/01/2006 22:26

Situation is outrageous, IMO. It's not unusual for primary schools to have inadequate changing facilities (probably rare to have adequate facilities, frankly) but that will generally mean children changing in an empty classroom, library, store-rooms or loos. Separating girls from boys should go without saying for that age group -- plenty of the girls in particular will be developing, and lots of primary-aged children are quite over-sexualised. I would have thought the school would be keen to take any opportunity to minimise the opportunity for the kids to behave in ways that are likely to cause probs.

My children's school is a Catholic primary too, and pretty crap in many ways, but in dd1's year group have been changing separately since Y3 (now Y6). This was partly because they had a male teacher in Y3 who was uncomfortable with supervising the girls changing. I think the teacher's comment about the boys wanting a good look is stunningly inappropriate. My dd is flat as a flat thing, so she probably wouldn't be that bothered by the situations, but from your dd's POV I would have thought you'd be more than justified in keeping her off PE and writing the school a note to let them know why. And copy it to the chair of governors and the LEA, while you're at it.

edam · 16/01/2006 22:28

Sadly, some people seem to be drawn into teaching (esp. PE) because they enjoy humiliating people who are smaller than them and unable to fight back. Sounds like your dd's PE teacher is one of them. You are quite right to object to this. Suggestions about the head/Ofsted sound good to me.