Do you sign your home/school agreements

[spiritmum]

We've always refused to. They strike me as being the educational equivalent of the pre-nup.

I'm interested because I feel a whinge fest to the dc's head coming on and I know this will get raised with me. They don't have any teeth though, do they?

I usually sign it, I don't have a problem with it.

I think it shoes my DC that school and home work togather as a team, in theory anyway.

And that in any relationship there are responsibilities that go both ways!

But I think if you feel strongly about it then you are right not to sign.

To me though, it sounds like you have issues with the school anyway, which I don't really have.

I don't get why you wouldn't sign it? what's the point in being so oppositional have you had a previous bad experience with the school not sticking to it?

My ds (just turned 4) is expected to sign to say that he will 'wear his uniform with pride' - not a concept that he gets.

But my main objection i sthat we are supposed to say we will 'support the school in all its policies' - which we may or may not.

I also object to the assumption that both the dc and ourselves will generally behave like anti-social trouble-makers unless we sign the contract.

Oh, and aren't the school supposed to do all the stuff they say they will in the contract even if we did have horribly behaved dc? (which we don't)

To me it's a symptom of the fact that the school (and by extension the State) don't trust us to do the right thing by our kids.

"They don't have any teeth though, do they?"

It's mumbo-jumbo. Tell me anyone who has ever been thrown out of a school because their parents refused to sign.

I admit the policy thing is a bit odd.

but generally I would sign it, surely it means the school is slightly more accountable if they don't hold up their part?

or am I being naive?

Schools round here ask reception children - four year olds! - to sign up to the schools' policy on internet use. Which no way can they understand. Whatever the legalities (dodgy) doesn't seem good practice to make young children sign something that they simply cannot understand at that age.

a lot of parents have problems with it but end up going the route - as we did - of not getting off on a bad foot with the school. But I'm increasingly thinking schools need to be challenged by parents re some of he many, many stupid and idiotic policies that they adopt (see the current thread at the moment about school uniforms, for example).

I've no problem with families who don't support their child's education being asked to sign it (although they aren't enforceable, so in that sense even this is a waste of time).

Schools have legal obligations anyway which leave them accountable.

I object to being asked to sign something with regards to my ds' behaviour when he's not even started school yet (and the fact that he's expected to sign something that he can't understand - and as he can't write yet he'll have to put a big cross ). And I object to being asked to sign a contract about my dds' conduct when neither of them are any trouble and have glowing school reports as to their behaviour.

And as a family we do generally comply with the silly stuff the school dreams up even when we don't agree with it. But sometimes we are late, and sometimes I do support my childrens' learning by prioritising family time or outside fun over rote learning homework.

But overall it's the fact that the school is so suspicious of parents that we all need to sign these contracts to 'prove' that we are supportive not only of the school but of our own children that gets me.

Most people I know sign them as a box ticking exercise to keep Ofsted happy.

I find the idea ofthese signed agreements bizarre really.

Miss C, I'm on the uniform thread too - we've just had a wholesale uniform change which is just a vanity exercise.

I don't support that although I have complied by buying it. But I am going to make an official complaint about it to the Governors. Which I guess isn't 'supporting the school in all its policies' really.

I was scared witless of the school when dd1 started, but this was the one thing dh and I stood firm on. Now I'm much more argumentative and I suspect the head regards me as a PITA.

I just think of them as a ridiculous admin exercise. Somewhere in the school, there is over 600 pieces of identical paper with different signatures at the bottom - I'm not sure what that achieves. It must become obvious who isn't getting the right help at home - wouldn't it be better to deal with problem as they arise?

My DCs agreement is in their diary, DC, school and parents have to sign every year. Its mainly they will turn up to school in uniform, and do their homework.

I can understand that its nice for the school to be able to say, "well you did agree to .....". I sign because it seems reasonable to me. I did refuse to sign the Infants Photo policy as I strongly disagreed with the wording (no limit on the time they could keep photos); of course the school has continued to take photos illegally since. I actually wrote when I refused to sign the policy, but got no reply; and haven't bothered to inform the new Head of my opposition.

They are something that Ofsted think is a good idea. I have signed them and returned them to school - mostly for an easy life and because I know they are not legally enforceable - if they were I would have refused to sign. Interestingly I have never recieved a copy of the agreement signed by the school, seems it's only important to have the parents and kids whipped into shape because the school already do everything right, don't they?

It seems odd to me that you should be expected to sign an agreement which you don't have an input into drawing up (and really without an opt out, children mostly have to go to school as home educating them isn't practical for most people). It also seems unlikely to me that you will have been able to read all of the school's policies and it is not good practice to sign anything you haven't read thoroughly.

SpiritMum, I've decided from painful experience that if you have a daft headteacher, you are probably better off being known as a PITA - they are much less likely to walk all over you, than if you are aquiescent, anonymous parents who always seem to toe the line.

And well done complaining to the governors! Of course you should complain about daft policies, whatever bits of paper they've made you sign.

I got hassled in the playground after not signing the photo and internet ones.

It felt a bit like the we havent had you 'voluntary donation' for the trip yet hassling I got

I'm not going to sign again this year (3rd child starting)

i have never signed or returned one, nobody has ever chased me for it.

sorry,but in my view, it is just more of the earths resources being wasted to produce bits of paper.

especially when, because of the fair access policy, your child can have 2 years of their primary education ruined by a child who runs around the room, screams at the teacher, and bullies other children. the school has no control over this.

I do get chased for it but just smile vaguely. They give up in the end. I did feel like making an issue out of it but again it is the dc who end up getting it in the neck, not me.

I have no problem with the school taking photos but I always refuse to let the dc be weighed for the Govt's obesity thing - I find myself yelling at the radio when families complain about their dc getting nasty letters, 'well why did you let them get weighed in the first place?' But then people don't always know they can opt out of these things, do they?

Thank you, MissCromwell - the head is a control freak and definitely knows he can control me through denying my children the same things as others (e.g. if they don't have regulation lunches it gets confiscated) Much of it is Ofsted box ticking e.g. the 'healthy schools' award. Very interesting to see how much chocolate is consumed in the staff room.

I need to do a lot of research before I make my complaint. Not that it will make a huge difference given that they didn't sack him for something amillion times worse (can't say too much, this is a small school and coudl be easlity identified).

Scooby - totally right.

Breathesslowly, it's not just that I woudl have to read all their policies but that they effectively add new ones all the time, partly because of Govt. directives and partly because they want to. I'd never keep up.

As far as I'm aware, the point in these agreements is for the child to feel as if they have taken part in agreeing to act in a responsible and respectable way at school. They have no legal bearing, but if child is poorly behaved, school or parents can say "well you signed the agreement". I'm a secondary school teacher, so it might be a bit different in primary.
Also, those parents who really don't give a damn and refuse to support the school are reminded of it when something happens and they refuse to co-operate.

And not signing it would give the impression that you're likely to be difficult or to not support the school, which isn't necessarily a good plan.

But loopy, that assumes that all children are likely to misbehave. It's a presumption of guilt, just like a prenuptial agreement assumes the poorer party is going to sleep with their tennis coach at some point.

My dc have all been asked to sign them even before they had started school. None of them have ever been in trouble and children who have been hauled in repeatedly for bullying are still in school.

I have no problem with children who repeatedly misbehave being asked to sign them (probably pretty sharpish at secondary - bit different for KS1), I have no problem with parents who do not support their children (by keeping them at home for example) being required to sign them, and I would have no problem with these contracts having teeth.

But aside from the fact that ds and dd2 have no concept of 'wearing their uniform with pride' and ds can't actually write his name to sign it anyway, I do object to the assumption that my dc will not behave and that I will not support them in their education unless I sign this wretched piece of paper - and that I am supposed to sign up to agree that the school knows better that I do.

What happened to presumption of innocence?

No it doesn't.

This isn't a legal document, it is an agreement that asks all children to adhere to the school rules. There is no presumption of guilt, but a simple agreement which shows that the school, child and parents agree on the principle rules of the school.

TBH if you refused to sign it, as a teacher I would be a bit , and if any poor behaviour did emerge, I would be thinking of the example you set your children.

And sorry, but what on earth does the amount of chocolate that teachers eat have anything to do with you?

Adults are able to make informed choices about their diet, children are not. Plus, children or snoopy mums really shouldn't be in the staffroom.