Do you sign your home/school agreements

[spiritmum]

We've always refused to. They strike me as being the educational equivalent of the pre-nup.

I'm interested because I feel a whinge fest to the dc's head coming on and I know this will get raised with me. They don't have any teeth though, do they?

Lol, loopy! So the school can snoop through what I put in my kids' lunches (I make the informed choices about their diet actually)but I can't question whether they apply the same rules to themselves? TBH I have no problem with anyone eating chocolate anywhere, any time. But be just about it. (in fact I have given gifts of cake to be eaten in the staff room...)

I'm glad that you would think about the example that I set my children, because it confirms what I think lies behind this - that we as parents are not trusted.

We do have family rules.

Do what is right.
Treat other people with respect and as you would wish to be treated.
Learning is a gift, make the most of every opportunity. It doesn't only happen at school and isn't only facilitated by teachers.
We live in an amazing world. Explore it.
Be fair.
Have fun.
Question what you are told and think critically.
If someone asks you to do something that makes you uncomfortable ask yourself why. Is it you or them?
If you believe you are being asked to do something that feels wrong then say no.
If you feel you are being treated unjustly then stand up for yourself.

I think I'd probably sum up our family ethos as: 'treat others as you wish to be treated yourself, but do not be a sheep.' The example I try to set is, 'Be fair and respectful but when something is unfair or unjust, say so.'

Your family rules sound great, but unfortunately not all families see the world this way.

Sadly, there are (quite a few, actually) parents who are quite happy for their children to eat crap and become obese, and also those who don't care about their child's education.

Clearly these agreements are more for these families than yours, but by refusing to adhere to these agreements, you are taking away any control that the school has over the other families, who may need more support.

But loopy, schools shouldn't have control over families. Families should have control over families, however rubbish.

If children don't turn up at school then action needs to be taken. But methinks a family who take their child shopping rather than send them to school isn't going to be bothered about a home/school agreement that has no legal meaning.

If a child is obese that if for their GP to sort out, not the school. And plenty of children eat crap and aren't obese so that is a form of prejudice.

And until every teacher has a healthy BMI and only eats healthily then the school system should accept that everyone is different. Children learn by example rather than by what they are told (do what we do and not what we say) and if they see certain foods or being fat as 'bad' but then see their educators eating them or being overweight that is a very mixed message, and it's not hard to see why eating disorders and weight-related bullying are on the rise. Far better just to be accepting of the variety in the world.

As I said, I have no problem at all with families with problems/disruptive puils getting home/school contracts that actually have some legal meaning. But me signing one makes no difference whatsoever to that. It does give the school the power to assume that it can tell me what to think.

I always sign the home school contracts DD has brought home. I have always ecplained it to DD and she has signed when appropriate too. When she was much smaller I simply explaied things in her own language and level of understanding. For example, it is very easy to explain what "wear uniform with pride" menas - and this is actually something DD is very proud of, her school uniform and her school itself.

I have never had a problm with it TBH. If something occured at school I was not happy with I would still go in and challenge it, regardless of the contract.

I do think parents and schools should work together as much as possible, to created a scure united front for the child.

I cant see the point in makig life a bit harder, for the sake of it.

The contract doesn't mean unfair procedures or incidents cn't be addressed if and when they occur.

But hula, I do want to work with the school. Why do they assume that I don't want to and think I need a piece of paper to make me?

And as it happens I don't think children should 'wear their school uniform with pride'. It's 'pride' that used to lead my school to meet up with the one next door and beat the crap out of each other once a week. These days they do it with knives.

Self respect, yes. Pride, no.

Spiritmum - you seem to think that the prescriptive system in place is the fault of the teachers. It isn't. The government is the body interfering in your life, not me.

Whether or not the government should interfere is quite a big question. Personally, I think that we should all have corporate responsibility for children, and if parents are not looking after or feeding a child properly, it is the responsibility of others, whether that be school, GP, neighbour or friend, to intervene. You clearly have a much more libertarian view than me.

Suggesting that teachers should have to eat healthily and stay slim in order to educate the children is only ok if the same applies to everyone in the country, as surely children are influenced by neighbours, people on the bus, the lollipop lady etc. In an ideal world everyone would eat healthily. But teachers are not paid enough for their entire lifestyle to change for the sake of the children they teach.

Loopy, I agree with you - I don't think teachers should be thin, non-smokers, never drop their aitches etc. So neither shoudl children.

That aside, I am aware that a great deal of the stuff that annoys me from the school is Government driven. The extent to which schools need to be compliant is a moot point though as it's apparent that it varies greatly.

My feeling is that 'looking after' and 'feeding properly' are highly subjective and what is right for one child isn't going to be right for another. For example it's obvious that the current system of weighing and classifying children as 'obese' is hit and miss and children who are actually leading very healthy lifestyles are being frightened unnecessarily. Another example is that of a family near me where the parents believe their disabled child should only be in primary school part-time but the school disagrees simply because another child has gone through the school with the same condition and went full-time, so they are taking her to court.

The problem is that when subjective judgements are made as to what is 'proper', the State then intervenes, and then get sit wrong. Hence we have everything from cheese only being served once a week in school lunches because it is a 'high fat food' to forced adoptions.

When I look at families around me I don't care if the child is sucking a fruitshoot or is wearing scratty clothes. I care if the parents are talking to them, playing with them, in short, loving them. The State can't legislate for that.

The most heartbreaking thing I've seen in a long time was a little boy from dd2's class at sports day. His mum and dad went off with their dd to have a picnic on the field an ddidn't bother watching him race, so he started to cry. My heart broke for him so I started to cheer him on. But it's not my job to go and berate his mother for it.

Oh bless him. :(

OK, so I agree with you too! :)

I signed it, but I didn't ask my ds2 (starting reception in Sep, 4.5yo) to sign which it also asked for.
I think it is insane to ask a child that young to sign an agreement, they have no concept of what they are agreeing to, or what that means.
And let face it, if they "break it" is the headteacher going to say "but look, you signed to say you wouldn't do these things"?

Will have to disagree on the pride thing. Not my experience at all.

It is mindless thuggery and violent upbringings that lead to knife crimes, etc, not pride.

I don't think a hime school agreement means that a school assumes you won't support the school or want to work with them. It just means that they are setting out what they hope to do with your child and what they hope you will do.

It is the same as many situations. When you start your child in nursery, you sign a contract; when you sign your child up to the library, you make a signedagreement to behave in a certain way; when you start a job, you sign a contract showing what each side should expect. To me, it is the same thing.

Loopy, it was very . But the thing is I could tell myself lots of stories about how the parents were too wrapped up in themselves or their dd to care, when it was probably just a momentary mistake like we all make. Glad we agree!

Chasing, I might have signed ours if it didn't have the thing about supporting the school in all its policies, but I agree it's mad to expect a child who can't even write to sign it.

Hula, I've just had a chat with dd1 about this. She's 8 and a bright kid. She said that she didn't really understand what being proud of her school meant. She likes it, but sometimes thinks the teachers are mean and sometimes they are wrong. I asked her is she felt that she would be proud to represent her school at an event and she said no, she'd just want to do her best and have fun. She knows that she'd proud of her dad because of what he does, and she also said she was proud of me (but I suspect that was her being kind ) but she clearly doesn't feel the same about her school. So I'm not going to expect her to sign something that she doesn't feel is true for her.

Incidentally, schools who expect their children to be 'proud' could fall foul of religious discrimination laws because Christianity (and I'm pretty sure Judaism and Islam) teach that pride is a sin. Not something that bothers me, but might some people.

Pride is very complex. It's not the same as respect, or self-respect, in that it can become distorted into something puffed-up and empty. 'Wear my uniform with respect' has very different connotations.

This is interesting.

Oh, and Hula, when we signed up to the library I only needed to give ID and if my dc had been asked to sign a conduct agreement I would have walked. Never got asked to sign anything at either of the dc's pre-schools, just got lots of lovely forms to fill out asking us what the dc's loved to do, were frightened of etc. If the school were employing me then of course I would sign a contract but they're not.

Everything in the home-school agreement is what the school is obliged to provide. There was nothing over and above what any school does or what they did when I was at school thirty years' ago.

The kinds of things I was asked to agree was that I would get the children to school on time, and that I would ensure they had their equipment. WTF? Like I don't think that's a good idea anyway?

And I also had to 'ensure they do their homework on time', and as set out above I think they sometimes learn more by not doing their homework.

I woudl say the school breached its contract with us when they gave my dd1 the word 'autopsy' to define and use a couple of days' after her granddad died. You can imagine the conversation...dd1's homework was all over the place so she got a stroppy note to repeat it, at which point I decided to stop being 'supportive' and complain. Turns out that the homework is 'administered' (i.e. set and marked) by the TAs. At least dd1's teacher did apologise profusely but that was a big failing on their part - she doesn't even know what homework they get week on week. 'TAs will set homework out of books' wasn't in the contract.

Another fully paid up member of the awkward club here. I won't sign one wrt to DD2 (13) as she has behavioural issues which started - or at least started happening at school - because of unaddressed bullying.

I cannot physically force a 13 yo child to do her homework and so on. I can encourage, cajole, threaten and bribe but I feel its very much a "you can lead a horse to water" situation. There comes a time when a child must take responsibility for her own actions and in the case of doing homework, wearing the correct uniform and so on, I feel that my 13 yo must be responsible herself and that there is a limit to what I can do.

Therefore, I don't sign. I know that these agreements have no power in law, which makes them a bit daft anyway, but as far as I am concerned I'm not willing to agree to do something which is beyond my powers.

As an aside, in my DD2s case at least, I think its a damn shame that some schools don't put their time and effort into the important things that they do have the ability to enforce and/or a legal obligation to comply with, be that providing an acceptable level of education, abiding by their anti-bullying policy or carrying out their duty of care.

Schools never seem to obey their side of the contract.

Lucinda have you moved here now?

I still live in Somerset.

Never signed one yet and never heard anything from the school about it either!