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Original poster

Unsure about 2nd jab in light of BMJ article

28 replies

Playgrind · 03/11/2021 11:58

Had my 1st jab only a few weeks ago, as I waited until I was no longer pregnant. I had very painful arm for a couple of days, plus headaches and slightly fuzzy/tingly feeling in my arm. My partner, who at 31 is a bit younger had no side effects whatsoever.
I have read that only 7% of people in clinical trails has headaches, so am worried I may have more severe side effects after 2nd jab.

Also considered about safety after reading this: www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

Sorry can't do clicky link 🤦🏻‍♀️It's an article about dodgy practices including falsifying data at a lab carrying out research for Pfizer.

Anyone care to share experiences of 2nd jab, or comment on the article? It's BMJ so not some dodgy anti-vax thing

Unsure about 2nd jab in light of BMJ article
OP posts:
whatswithtodaytoday · 03/11/2021 12:06

Billions of people all over the world have had two Pfizer jabs now. Many have had either a third or a booster. Of course there are some side effects, it's the same with all medication, but they are rare and the risk from getting Covid unvaccinated is greater.

I can't work out what your screenshot is trying to say, and the link isn't working.

Bringonthepjs · 03/11/2021 12:07

As above, billions have had it, sure you will be fine

Original poster
Playgrind · 03/11/2021 13:15

That's odd, the link is working for me.

It's an investigation published in the British Medical Journal yesterday : 'Covid-19: Researcher blows the whistle on data integrity issues in Pfizer’s vaccine trial'.

Can't understand why it's not in the news, Pfizer was fined billions by the US government for dodgy practices, so its not like they are have a trustworthy track record.

It's all very well saying its fine billions have had it, but some things take years to develop or come to light. Thalidomide for example.

OP posts:
JanglyBeads · 03/11/2021 13:24

The only reason thalidomide took months to come to light is because that’s how long it takes babies to be born, and antenatal scans didn’t exist in those days.

maxbabi · 03/11/2021 13:51

You are allowed to be worried. Saying millions have been fine does not alleviate your own feelings.
Only had 1 jab so far as I'm still suffering side effects.
Nobody cares though as I'm not one of the millions that were fine.

catndogslife · 03/11/2021 14:04

My dd in her 20s had headaches after the first Pfizer jab and this didn't happen after the second one.
This was with a 12 week gap between vaccines which was standard at the time.
I am not sure that I would trust an article based on an interview with a former employee because they would hold a grudge against the company and not inclined to be positive about them.
If anyone is noticing medical changes that could be long term side effects, the best course of action is to consult your GP.
I do however know people with long term effects from having COVID though, so that's something else to take into account.

Confused10101 · 03/11/2021 14:07

@Playgrind you have every right to be worried and raise questions…I cannot clearly read what the article is but going by your text looks like it’s about the clinical trials not being done properly?

If you want to go ahead, is there someone you can talk to in real life? Who can answer your questions etc?

I’ve taken the two Pfizer vaccines but my period is a no show after my second. I do not know if there is a connection between the two but I’m really worried about what more problems this will cause..

JosephineDeBeauharnais · 03/11/2021 14:07

Thalidomide was a drug, drug side effects tend to come out over time, vaccine side effects tend to show in the immediate and short term. Millions of doses of the various C-19 vaccines have been given now, yielding a wealth of data about side effects that in other circumstances would have taken decades to gather.
The vaccines are safer than the virus.

SapereAude · 03/11/2021 15:08

@Playgrind

That's odd, the link is working for me.

It's an investigation published in the British Medical Journal yesterday : 'Covid-19: Researcher blows the whistle on data integrity issues in Pfizer’s vaccine trial'.

Can't understand why it's not in the news, Pfizer was fined billions by the US government for dodgy practices, so its not like they are have a trustworthy track record.

It's all very well saying its fine billions have had it, but some things take years to develop or come to light. Thalidomide for example.

Is this the letter to the BMJ editor from the French guy? From another thread? Because if it is, then he has been digging about vaccine safety for about 5 years, and is part of an organisation in France called Reinfor (or sth) which purports to tell the "unbiased truth" about vaccines.
SirensofTitan · 03/11/2021 15:13

I can't read the article but what are you expecting people to say, literally millions have had two jabs with every manner of side effects and none at all.There is no way to predict in advance how an individual will be affected.

Can you explain exactly what you are wanting to acheive?

FlorenciaFlora · 03/11/2021 15:15

I’m not surprised. Pfizer has had billions in fines.

SapereAude · 03/11/2021 15:16

Ok, can see it's the same research referenced on the other thread, but not the same guy. He's an investigative journalist

I'd ask your doctor, OP.

Bobholll · 03/11/2021 15:21

Are you really worried because you had a headache & a painful arm? Hardly anything worrying. I get headaches all the time. I had one after my flu jab. I’ll still get it next year. It just means your body is doing something. I’ve never not had a vaccine that’s not left me with a sore arm for a few days. It’s a needle into your muscles. It hurts.

If you have genuine concerns about safety or efficacy, fair enough. But worrying about minor side effects is silly. We can all deal with a headache & sore arm.

Anecdotally, I had a headache, sore arm & nausea for a couple days post vaccine 1. I had zero side effects after vaccine 2. Pfizer. I don’t know anyone in their 30’s who had significant side effects. The majority of my friends, colleagues & younger family are 30-39. Everyone was fine.

GypsyWanderer · 03/11/2021 16:44

After my first Pfizer I had severe headaches that lasted 2 weeks and I was so tired and weak and rundown for the first few days. My arms hurt like Hell for the first few days too. I was really worried about the second jab but apart from a headache for a couple of hours afterwards I had zero side effects. My arm didn’t even feel bad. DH had hardly any side effects for either of them except the second one he felt a bit off the next day.

GypsyWanderer · 03/11/2021 16:45

Also I’m 39.

Quartz2208 · 03/11/2021 16:46

Having read it - its not so much about the efficacy or safety of the vaccine but about unbinding patients, a lack of care over their personal details and not following through (or not inputting follow through) to check on them after adverse events.

Mostly to do with the trial running rather than the vaccine itself (if that makes sense)

RachC2021 · 03/11/2021 17:11

I reacted more to the flu jab than I did my third Pfizer. (1st and 2nd Pfizer were pretty much the same.)

2bazookas · 03/11/2021 17:31

We have both had three pfizer jabs, no problems at all

Ist, arm slightly tender by bedtime, fine next day
2nd, no reaction
3rd, same reaction as 1.

Get yourself fully protected.

sartorius · 03/11/2021 17:41

Everyone is different and they have their own set of medical circumstances.
OP you (and anyone else concerned about any vaccine) should speak to your OWN doctor.
She is the only one who has your complete medical history and can advise you on your OWN set of circumstances.

Siriisatwat · 03/11/2021 17:46

@maxbabi

You are allowed to be worried. Saying millions have been fine does not alleviate your own feelings. Only had 1 jab so far as I'm still suffering side effects. Nobody cares though as I'm not one of the millions that were fine.
Same here @maxbabi
Siriisatwat · 03/11/2021 17:48

@maxbabi I mean I’m under neurology but there’s not much they can do other than try different combos of painkillers at the moment.

Kleo · 03/11/2021 18:29

PPs saying get fully protected, the vaccine is barely a vaccine in the traditional understanding of the word.

We have Jab One. Then we wait 12 weeks for Jab Two. We wait another 2 weeks to be 'fully protected'. Within 8 - 12 weeks of that second jab, protection is waning significantly already (so within 6 - 10 weeks of becoming 'fully protected'). The jab doesn't induce a T cell response thus immunity wanes quickly. What does it even mean to be fully protected? It takes 12 weeks to be fully protected and your immunity is already much less sometime in weeks 18 to 22. I'm not sure it's worth the adverse reaction risk for just 6 to 10 weeks of 'full protection', which remember isn't necessarily high protection from infection but from serious illness (which is defined as needing ITU treatment) and death.

Which brings you inevitably round to why you'd give the jab to a child who is already very protected from serious illness or death by virtue of being a child.

Walkaround · 03/11/2021 22:16

@Kleo - who says the vaccine doesn’t produce a T-cell effect?! I watched a documentary about the development of the vaccines we are now using and distinctly remember reference to the T-cell response. The Oxford Astra Zeneca team in particular made a big thing of that in the documentary as that was the area of specialism of one of the main scientists involved in its development. So I think you might be talking a little bit of bollocks…

Kleo · 04/11/2021 10:37

You're right, I misspoke. The vaccines do induce a spike protein specific T-cell response, and quite well in the early days following vaccination, though there is less data long term.
www.nature.com/articles/s41423-021-00743-3
It's less broad than post infection though and the T-cell response elicited is specific to the spike protein (which makes sense given that's what the current vaccines target). The recent study regarding viral load and household contacts suggest variants such as delta can escape it somewhat, maybe due to the specificity of the immune response to the spike protein only. But then mass vaxxing using a vaccine focuses on one small specific part of the virus, in the middle of the pandemic so high levels of circulating virus, was only ever going to put evolutionary pressure on coronavirus for a variant that can sidestep that specific part.

I suppose my point is a vaccine that doesn't really protect you from the the dominant variant at present and even then not for long is quite far outside what most people expect or mean when they talk about being fully vaccinated. But I spoke far too broadly about T-cell response and the strengths and limitations of what the response the vaccines create is, and shouldn't have said there was none.