Protect the bloody NHS again

[bathsh3ba]

Is anyone else sick of hearing this? Maybe, if health systems everywhere are failing to manage this virus, we should start to accept that it's not feasible for a publicly funded health service to be all things to all people. It can't treat every ailment or save every life because there just isn't the money for the staff or beds or equipment to do that. Especially when the furlough bill comes home to roost.

That’s what the Tories want- an excuse to privatise healthcare and destroy the NHS.
But I do think questions need Asked about the rationale behind some treatments and Decisions made- as I often think it’s a case of “we can so we will” rather than “we can and we should So we will”. So many people without DNACPRs who should NOT be kept alive at all costs and so many people whose lives are being prolonged with little or no quality of life at all.
And some things done on the NHS that should not be and should be funded privately. Like vasectomy reversals...

Well, the NHS didn’t do very much for me in March when I had Covid. That was only confirmed by a private antibody test. No face to face GP appointment. Best advice I got was from a breathing video on YouTube.

As you say, the bill from Covid on top of an ageing population which we seem determined to save. Money is going to have to come from somewhere or people’s expectations will have to be lowered going forward.

What do you think should happen then? You start coughing we bury you straight away to save the bed? Or does each covid person only get to stay in hospital until a non covid emergency needs the space? Or we could say 5 days treatment only then discharge dead yet alive!

What's your plan? What's your bright idea to resolve the priorities?

Gah, dead or alive

There is no viable fully functioning alternative whether you think there should be one or not. Therefore we do need to protect the NHS.
Agree this will provide fodder for the Tory ulterior motive of privatisation as years of underfunding will all capitulate.

Over to Professor Devi Sridhar:

Such false logic: uncontrolled spread doesn’t mean ‘just some people die.’ It means health services collapsing bc of high COVID hospitalisation rate (so all patients suffer), lasting economic damage from people being scared & changing behaviour, & society going backwards.

And she retweeted this:

The number of nurses who have died of COVID is now equal to those ‘who died in the First World War’, says ICN chief.

And, about false economy:

Back in late Feb, a Chinese colleague said that with early action & an elimination strategy (stop transmission within borders), we could be past the worst by June. The UK response was ‘costs are too high.’ We are now into November & 2nd lockdown - cost with this approach?

Re privatisation:

Don’t forget they took over private hospitals too which then stood empty. I’ve paid a fortune for private healthcare over the years and couldn’t get a procedure done.

I found it more frustrating that Boris said it’s so
Doctors don’t have to choose who lives and dies by who gets the oxygen... but this is exactly what he’s doing by stopping so many treatments to not overwhelm the NHS

Ok and what? Do they leave the covid patients to die? Or do they leave the cancer patients to die? Whether they're over 60 or matter to you or not the increase in cases will still be there 🤷‍♀️

Surely you want hospitals to still exist?

Who’s actually managing to access the NHS these days anyway? I’m paying for private therapy as NHS provision is non existent. And we’ve been waiting for over 18 months for DSs ASD assessment. God knows when that will ever happen now. I’m fed up of staying at home to protect an NHS service that is propping an ageing population.

It wasn't that long ago when we had that massive NHS crisis with every hospital being overwhelmed and no beds available. This was nothing to do with covid. It was years of under-funding and mismanagement.

We talk about the NHS as the pride of Britain, but it's a seriously under-par service and a regional lottery. My local general hospital is a disgrace.

People who cannot access NHS care at the moment won't be particularly interested in protecting it.

Well, how about protecting the NHS staff who are already knackered from trying to provide decent care in an underfunded system at the best of times. I can’t imagine what impact the pandemic has had on them, and now they face doing it all over again. But worse.

I've had good and bad experiences of the NHS over the years. I just think we expect more of it than it can give and if we accepted not all viruses or diseases can be controlled or beaten, we could find a more ethically fair way through. We can't save every life, I think it's ethically dishonest to pretend we can.

Thanks Paddington. When most of the country was safe at home in April, the NHS staff were terrified , sweating in PPE ( if we had it ) and many of us sick with Covid ( and are still not
Recovered) plus so sad seeing our non covid patients miss life saving treatments. We have spent months being abused by Patients / families who are stressed and lashing out.

People who cannot access NHS care at the moment won't be particularly interested in protecting it

This is exactly what I've been saying since the summer; "protecting the NHS" and silly clapping might have motivated people last time, but it's unlikely to work among those who've been abandoned even when cases were minuscule

Rest assured, though, that when the NHS GPs who've been pushing for consultation fees get their way, the doors will probably be fully open again

@PaddingtonsHat

Well, how about protecting the NHS staff who are already knackered from trying to provide decent care in an underfunded system at the best of times. I can’t imagine what impact the pandemic has had on them, and now they face doing it all over again. But worse.

the nhs is not underfunded it has enough money which it wastes.

Fucking hell, I should not have clicked on this thread.

I need a drink.

One can at least hope to not pick up Covid during a routine op. My family member just did. Days of breathlessness later prompted her to test, and a positive Covid test now means she's shit scared due to an underlying medical condition. She's 32 and has been isolating before the op as requested, and she's been shielding mostly due to her condition. Don't think it's a lot to ask that a minor, routine op can be Covid free?

Rubbish. It is underfunded. In the last 10 years only 1.4% increases compared to 3.7% in previous years (source- Kings Fund). That doesn’t mean improvements couldn’t be made in how money is spent or processes streamlined.

The NHS (And the UK as a whole) is not designed to accommodate 70 million people.

@bathsh3ba

I've had good and bad experiences of the NHS over the years. I just think we expect more of it than it can give and if we accepted not all viruses or diseases can be controlled or beaten, we could find a more ethically fair way through. We can't save every life, I think it's ethically dishonest to pretend we can.

How would you find that ethically fair way? What is your actual proposal? Because otherwise you're just throwing up your hands and saying 'well the coronavirus just has to go away'

Assuming that OP is going first in giving up her and her family’s right to be admitted to hospital from now til spring.

Thanks. Very gallant of you.

The NHS has the money the government chooses to give it.

Underfunding is a deliberate choice, not an inevitability.