Protect the bloody NHS again

[bathsh3ba]

Is anyone else sick of hearing this? Maybe, if health systems everywhere are failing to manage this virus, we should start to accept that it's not feasible for a publicly funded health service to be all things to all people. It can't treat every ailment or save every life because there just isn't the money for the staff or beds or equipment to do that. Especially when the furlough bill comes home to roost.

The NHS spends its money on keeping thousands of people alive who are in minimally conscious states, in pain and with no quality of life.

Care home fees for people on NHS continuing care are around £800 a week. Some patients will live 10+ years.

Is it fair for children, young people and the working population to be expected to go without tests, treatment and care in order for patients with no quality of life to be forced to remain alive?

The current pandemic is bringing things into sharp focus.

There is rather a lot of eugenics type talk on this thread isn't there ?

New slogan:

"Fund the fucking NHS so it doesn't hit black alert every bloody winter anyway"

Might not fit on the podiums but they could extend them. The NHS ends up in the shit every. single. bloody. winter.

This is so ridiculous. Of course we need to protect the NHS and it’s capacity to deal with Covid and non Covid.
Are people supposed to die in the streets outside hospitals?
As the above poster said, thanks though for being willing to give up your spot OP

@MelodramPatheticism

The NHS spends its money on keeping thousands of people alive who are in minimally conscious states, in pain and with no quality of life.

Care home fees for people on NHS continuing care are around £800 a week. Some patients will live 10+ years.

Is it fair for children, young people and the working population to be expected to go without tests, treatment and care in order for patients with no quality of life to be forced to remain alive?

The current pandemic is bringing things into sharp focus.

What do you want- euthanasia? That’s an entirely different debate and would do nothing to help the death rate

Is it fair for children, young people and the working population to be expected to go without tests, treatment and care in order for patients with no quality of life to be forced to remain alive?

Is this what is happening ? If it is , has it anything to do with the pandemic, given you mention people recieving continuing care funding for 10yrs plus @MelodramPatheticism

That's not what 'eugenics' means actually.

OK fair enough , not eugenics , how about enforced Government sanctioned euthanasia ? Is that a better term ?

The NHS exists to serve everyone in the population. It cannot currently do that because of the pandemic stretching it far beyond its limits. People with other illnesses aren't being treated. It has no spare capacity. It has backed itself into a corner by providing unrealistic levels of care.

so, at what age shall we start 'releasing' the older population, assuming the families are for it being so. if the average cost in the u.k for care homes is £35,000 p.a people might want granny to be released prompto because of their inheritance. most residents would be eventually reliant on the state to cover costs.
i wouldn't want to be responsible for making the decisions like this.

Yes, we do need to protect the NHS.

No, it's not perfect but having a relative who works as a doctor in another country where there is private healthcare and very poor government hospitals, I can tell you, it is an eye opener.

Canada has a very good public healthcare system but the mental health provision is non-existent.

Be careful what you wish for, folks!

@PaddingtonsHat

What I don’t understand is the inherent blaming of the NHS, which is made up of people who are trying their best in an imperfect system. Why doesn’t the blame go higher? Why aren’t there enough staff (clue crap pay and not valued) why isn’t there a ‘pandemic plan’ to enable elective and emergency care to continue side by side, why aren’t winter pressures addressed let alone pandemic pressures. Etc etc etc.

its the biggest employer in the world 1400000 people work for it but theres still not enough 48 percent of them not being Professionally qualified clinical staff

Nobody complain about not receiving tests or treatment then.

Carry on.

People who cannot access NHS care at the moment won't be particularly interested in protecting it.

This ^

Melodrama - U.K. spends less of its gdp on health than many other European countries and US. How is it that they are providing unrealistic levels of care? Surely it is the low level of funding that is the issue?

I think people are naive thinking covid will over run and destroy the NHS. We cannot have a first world national health service without a first world economy. With continuing lockdowns and 'the roolz' we wont have an economy able to support the NHS anyway. No doubt people will cry 'it's the Tories!' Without using their critical thinking and realising that if hundreds of people loose their jobs, businesses close and no ones paying nation insurance or taxes then where the hell is the money to fund the NHS we sacrificed so much in the name of saving

Yep. Beggars belief as a slogan. The NHS exists to provide healthcare. It should be obvious and acceptable that that can't happen in a pandemic.

People with other illnesses are being treated @MelodramPatheticism, millions of them ,including two in my immediate family who's lives were saved recently.
Is it perfect ? Hell no and I would struggle to find another person who works in the NHS who would disagree, but you have to remember that it has been acceptable for the service to run on unsafe staffing levels with unsafe bed capacity numbers for many years prior to this pandemic.

@MelodramPatheticism I actually think the QALY system works really well when making treatment decisions. No idea why it's not applied to covid cases though. My father died a gruesome, humiliating death in Germany, and a UK doc friend said those treatment decisions would never have happened here as there was no realistic prospect of recovery.

@IndiaMay indeed, but I'm fairly sure any retrospective criticism of any aspect of COVID policy will in future be a thought crime and the Ministry of Truth will send you for re-education.

Until the general public accept people are living longer with complex multiple comorbidities and this needs to be funded by paying more tax... well that's basically it.
When it was set up, people rarely lived beyond 70 - it's the same for the state pension.
Money for the above has to come from us, or it will be gone and you'll be paying £50 to see a GP as they do in Ireland.

Yes, sick to the back teeth of hearing it. If the issue is that the NHS can’t cope then its failings need addressing. They built the Nightingales specifically to cope with Covid so get them fully reopened and operating.

The number of nurses who have died of COVID is now equal to those ‘who died in the First World War’, says ICN chief

Does the ICN chief mean the number of nurses who have died of Covid is equal to the number of nurses who died in the 1st WW, or the number of people in general who died in it?

These are our choices:

1/ Lockdown, and we can still (hopefully) treat Covid and non-Covid patients.
2/ We don't treat Covid patients but carry on treating others. This will result in thousands of deaths.
3/ We only treat Covid patients. This will result in thousands of deaths.

Take your pick.

If the issue is that the NHS can’t cope then its failings need addressing. They built the Nightingales specifically to cope with Covid so get them fully reopened and operating.

We don't have enough time or enough staff.