“Europe stays committed to in-person classes as school outbreaks remain rare”

[notevenat20]

What do people think about this article?

www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/coronavirus-outbreaks-schools-europe/2020/09/27/0dd19bf6-ff48-11ea-b0e4-350e4e60cc91_story.html

The whole thing is fascinating but this stuck out for me

“ Viral spread in school appears rare enough, he said, that Belgian policymakers think having in-person classes might actually be safer than virtual schooling, assuming students tend to be less rigorous about social distancing when they’re not being supervised in classrooms.”

The article is behind a paywall for me.

But from the excerpt, of course it's stating the bleeding obvious that people are safer in an environment where distancing is enforced if you compare that to unpoliced places

There's no social distancing being enforced in schools here though (most schools physically don't have space to enforce social distancing)

There's no social distancing being enforced in schools here though (most schools physically don't have space to enforce social distancing)

This.

I have an account either but opening a “private browsing” seemed to work for me. But just in case, here is some more

“ Many countries in Europe have dropped rules about wearing masks in schools, reasoning that it’s difficult for students to concentrate when they have them on all day. Public health authorities have spent more energy devising ways for children to study within relatively small cohorts, so that if quarantines are required, fewer people will be affected.”

“ Many countries in Europe have dropped rules about wearing masks in schools, reasoning that it’s difficult for students to concentrate when they have them on all day. Public health authorities have spent more energy devising ways for children to study within relatively small cohorts, so that if quarantines are required, fewer people will be affected.”

I *don’t have an account.

There's no social distancing being enforced in schools here though (most schools physically don't have space to enforce social distancing)

This bit looks relevant

“ The school environment, in our perception, is still quite a controlled environment,” he said. “We think it’s better to have schools open than to send kids home, have them meet on the street and give them more opportunities to spread the virus.”

There's no social distancing being enforced in schools here though (most schools physically don't have space to enforce social distancing)

Don’t most secondary schools have a bubble system and restrictions on movement around the school?

Don’t most secondary schools have a bubble system and restrictions on movement around the school?
No - ours doesn't. Masks on buses and in corridors. Wiping tables down at start and end of class. No practical science. That's it. Everything else is the same. No bubbles.

@Qwertywerty3

The article and the experience in Europe is the exact opposite of what you've just written.
Many european countries still held exams, the children of my friends in s/w france, who are at Uni and can come and go as they please, they have face to face learning too.

The thing that is missing from this governments stance is "consent" no western country can police a population - young or old if they don't want to be.

We no longer trust this Govt, that is the real issue.

Average class size by country. The smaller the classes, the better the return to school seems to be going, infection wise.

Also, smaller classes work well for learning, a useful bonus.

Average class size by country. The smaller the classes, the better the return to school seems to be going, infection wise.

It's a nice chart but I am not sure of its relevance unless we think almost all the infection is happening in the classroom during lessons? Wouldn't it be more likely in break time when children climb on top of each other?

In any case, the evidence from Europe seems to be that schools just don't transmit the virus around internally a great deal.

Average class size by country. The smaller the classes, the better the return to school seems to be going, infection wise.

Can you give the source of the chart? It's hard to tell which stage of school it is referring to.

One third of all outbreaks in France take place in educational settings- it is the highest contributor, more than all other workplaces put together.

One third of all outbreaks in France take place in educational settings- it is the highest contributor, more than all other workplaces put together.

The suggestion is these cases are not caught in the schools and once someone has a case in a school it normally does not mean everyone else in the year tests positive too.

@notevenat20

If class sizes are smaller then transmission could be expected to be less.

I think it's odd that the article quotes Belgium, which has one of the highest death rates per capita in Europe. We have one of the biggest class sizes in Europe. We have a system whereby a high number of pupils have to take public transport with the general population, not school busses.

Don’t most secondary schools have a bubble system and restrictions on movement around the school?

Yes, but the bubbles are huge, and by the time you have accounted for siblings in different bubbles, teachers crossing bubbles and mixed year group travel, they are pretty meaningless.

I think it's odd that the article quotes Belgium, which has one of the highest death rates per capita in Europe.

The Belgiums have a much more aggressive way of counting covid deaths. See www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52491210

Belgians.. :)

If class sizes are smaller then transmission could be expected to be less.

I am just not sure there is any evidence for that. First, as I suggested, surely the size of the year is most relevant. And second, it seems that there is just very little child to child transmission in schools. The cases for children that happen in schools seem to come from infections outside the schools.

My dd is at a Belgian secondary school. They have to wear masks in class and when moving round the school. They have to hand sanitize when entering the school and when entering and leaving a classroom. They have to have lunch with their class and if they order a sandwich it is delivered to their table. They can see friends in the playground etc but must stay 1.5 m away from each other or keep their mask on. Fingers crossed, though kids have been tested, no classes seem to have been sent home yet. Belgian classrooms tend to be old fashioned anyway. Groups of 2 desks all facing the front.

Classes are generally a max of 25

@CokeEnStock

The article says

"Many countries in Europe have dropped rules about wearing masks in schools, reasoning that it’s difficult for students to concentrate when they have them on all day. "

Do you think that's a good idea?

I don't know really. From what dd tells me no one is moaning about it. You have to wear one everywhere outside your house here at the moment anyway, so it's become almost normal. The way the numbers are going up I'd prefer them to keep the masks for now.