Direct contradiction on Government advice page.

[Zacharyezrarawlings]

does anyone else think it is slightly concerning that the Government advice page actually contains clearly contradictory information? How can they not even check that what is published is consistent?
And we are trusting these people to guide us and keep us safe.....
From the main messages section:
"•if you live with others and you or one of them have symptoms of coronavirus, then all household members must stay at home and not leave the house for 14 days. The 14-day period starts from the day when the first person in the house became ill"

However from the part on ending self isolation:
"After 7 days, if the first person to become ill feels better and no longer has a high temperature, they can return to their normal routine."

so, if you're the first person ill do you self isolate for 7 or 14 days? Who knows? Not the Government apparently!

link to the page for those that haven't seen it:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-stay-at-home-guidance/stay-at-home-guidance-for-households-with-possible-coronavirus-covid-19-infection#ending-isolation

If you live on your own it’s 7 days self isolation

If you live with others, as soon as the first person becomes poorly you all self isolate for 14 days

Should another member of the family become poorly, they isolate for a further 7 days

That’s how I read it anyway

I've just read the full guidance. What I take from that is that when an individual shows symptoms, they self isolate for 7 days after their symptoms first start showing. However the 14 day period for the whole household is taking into account the time needed for it to transmit from person to person if it is going to. Ie Jake could get it and it will take 5 days to transmit to Jane. Jane could then have it and it takes another 5 days to transmit to John. So the 14 day period gives enough time for everyone to get it if they are going to and get through the infectious period. Once Jake, Jane and John do start showing symptoms, they each have to isolate for a 7 day period from the onset of the first symptom.

My above interpretation is for a family household. I would draw the same interpretation as @peasfox has done if it was a single person household.

mlou yes, I think that is what they mean but isn't actually what they say! They clearly say initially if you get symptoms ALL members of house to SI for 14 days (so all including first unwell person) yet then later they clearly say if you have symptoms you can go out after 7 days of you're better.
It is the fact that it is so badly written and is clearly causing masses of confusion for people and employers that is the most worrying. If they cant even properly proof read something like this what hope is there....

I agree that the unclear messages are going to baffle and confuse people.

The logic, is that person A is free after 7 days (same as a single person) and the remaining members should stay in for the 14 days (even with no symptoms).

Really, sometimes households would need to lock down for far longer, if the disease transmits. There are potential scenarios where person B doesn't pick it until, say, day 7 - they would be infectious until day 14. Then they could infect person C towards the end of their illness, therefore that person could be infectious until day 21.

If there are several people in a household, they could all pick it up in a chain, rather than simultaneously. But publishing guidance on that will confuse even more, and the risk is people will just reject the whole thing.

One letter from school said in the first sentence that the children must attend if they don't have a positive diagnosis. The second sentence said they should stay off for a week if they have any cough or cold symptoms at all. Well that's clear...

This was explained clearly at one of the conferences, and the rationale behind it,

bluntness what Boris actually said at the conference was "if you, or anyone in your house has one of the symptoms (cough or high temp) then you all must self isolate for 14 days."
But that is NOT what they mean, or what is printed on the advice page. ie the part about the first person getting symptoms can go out after 7 days.
I'm a doctor. I get it. I understand about incubatin periods, transmission etc. I know what they mean and what they are trying to say and the reasons and science behind it.
But that isn't the point. The fact remains millions of people are confused about this (just glance at any of the current threads her to see how many are asking about SI times)and one of the main reasons that people are confused is because the information that has been given in the press conference and then even what is printed on the advice page is quite clearly contradictory!

Works interpretation is

Symptoms - 7 days isolation
Everyone else in the household - 14 days
So I am wfh and isolating with cough and mild fever, as are dh and DS (symptomless)
I can go back to work in 7 days, DH and DS home for the 14

@zacharyezrarawlings I think that is what they actually mean but it isn't what they've said. But that is what they've said otherwise how would I have got that meaning from it? I've interpreted my own take from it based on what they have said. I haven't just plucked my own take on it from thin air.

It is fairly clear to me but then I appreciate that everyone interprets things differently. Even the most basic of advice (I thought) - "if you have a new persistent cough or fever" - people weren't even understanding that. So I don't think it's going to be easy to get a message across that everyone understands, no matter how basic they make it.

I think at that press conference (the Monday one) one of journalists did ask for clarity, but not everyone who was watching will have stayed on for the journalists' questions. But what the PM said was not correct. And the printed advice is not clear and people will interpret. So the picture is not encouraging!

Yep our work has interpreted it the same. I had to return today after 7 days as temp was normal this morning. Got to the door and was sent home because my chest is still so bad. I now won't come under Corona rules because I was unable to return after 7 days.

I work for the nhs.

Sorry "the same" is the same as what @Mooey89 posted

mlou because what it actually says is :
"•if you live with others and you or one of them have symptoms of coronavirus, then all household members must stay at home and not leave the house for 14 days. The 14-day period starts from the day when the first person in the house became ill"
and what Boris actually said in the press conference was :
"if you, or anyone in your household has one of the symptoms(cough or temp), you must all self isolate for 14 days."
and a lot of employers are sticking to this and this is causing massive problems for people.

For example they could have written:

"If you develop a cough or high temp then you must self isolate for 7 days. If you live with other people, all those in your household must self isolate for 14 days if asymptomatic. If any other household member develops symptoms that person then needs to isolate for 7 days from the start of their symptoms."

that would make it clearer. Its not hard. I just cant believe they have written it so badly.

@zacharyezrarawlings perhaps they should do a blanket lockdown, give everyone 7 days to prepare for it and then lockdown for say one month, from X date to X date. With very few exceptions and the army/police on the streets will determine if you have a valid exception when they stop you when you're out and about. That way there would be no room for interpretation or misinterpretation (as I may have done?). But then that wouldn't be practical. I don't know, but I honestly don't know how to get a message out there that everyone will understand and adhere to.

I've also seen a few people on MN (not you but other posters) who seem to be deliberately choosing to pretend to not understand the advice simply to be obtuse. Perhaps they were genuine in their lack of understanding but I fail to see how.

The advice on the gov pages is one thing on page 1, another on page 2. 111 has gone with the advice on page 1, my trust has gone with the advice on page 2.

I don't even know if I have the bloody virus!

mlou yes, that is true some people are asking some odd questions which even I think are perfectly clear eg "my child has a new persistent cough , should I send her to school today" and some are just being selfish and not following guidance at all. But it really doesn't help when those genuinely trying to follow guidance cant because it is so contradictory and confusing!

I agree and was too scared to state a thread on this myself. It is enormously confusing. I got a call from my local advice team yesterday who are supposed to run through house rules etc. with you and he was like a chocolate teapot.

start

buffering that's exactly my point. How the hell are we meant to know what to do?

I also love the idea that we have another place we can ship another vulnerable person off to : even though, let's face it, of we have it, they may already have it, too.

Indeed. I've been told to contact occupational health. Sadly there is only 1 HR person trying to sort this all out. They still haven't returned my call from yesterday and I suspect theh probably have days worth of calls to return before they get to me.

My GP says "we are not giving advice on any coronavirus symptoms, please see that advice on the Gov and 111 websites".

And back round the loop we go.

I took it to mean 14 days, but only 7 from the start of symptoms for that person.

My work are certainly expecting me back in after a week.