Trump - ‘Hamas lost 58,000 people’

[TicklishMauveSquid]

Trump has stated ‘Hamas lost 58,000 people’ out of Hamas death toll figures of 67,000. Which gives a combatant to civilian ratio of roughly 6:1.

That figure is unprecedented in any war in history.

This would mean 86% were combatants.

He didn’t quote a source although he obviously has access to intelligence we don’t have.

Did anyone else pick up on this?

https://x.com/EasternVoices/status/1977309578317725988

I didn’t realise Hamas had so many female and child soldiers. What a transparent attempt to hide the reality of who has born the brunt of this war.

Not a transparent attempt I think

Trumps an idiot
clearly incapable of basic maths
and a liar

Distribution of identified Palestinian fatalities in Gaza from October 8, 2023 to July 31, 2025, by broad age group and sex

Share of total identified fatalities which were at the time 61,158

Men 45.86% (18 - 59 ) = 28,047
Women 16.17% (18 - 59 ) = 9889
Children 30.62% (0-17) = 18,727
Elderly 7.35% ( 60 plus ) = 4495

© Statista 2025

I watched a great piece on Trump lies around the time he last visited the U.K.

There’s more
obviously he never does anything by halves and I suppose at least he’s consistent

Outing Trump as a liar again. It’s not just the U.K.

I won’t bore you all with more I’m sure you get the picture

You did know he’s a well documented and consummate liar didn’t you OP

I don't believe his figures but am very glad he stepped in and moved things forward. He's done more for peace in the region than any other leader. Surely you can balance the two things. In the end if it results in a lasting ceasefire it's an incredible achievement and lives will be saved. I'm not saying he's great in every way but on balance his intervention has the potential to save so many lives and I recognise that.

This study is interesting.

“ Why does Donald Trump tell such blatant lies?
October 22, 2024

In a new article for
The Conversation, psychology Professor Geoff Beattie discusses why Donald Trump lies.

When it comes to lying in politics, Donald Trump is in a class of his own. According to the Washington Post, he made 30,573 false or misleading claims in his four years as president, increasing year-on-year from six per day in his first year to 39 per day in his fourth.

Politicians who lie can gain a strategic advantage. If you can successfully embellish the truth or construct a new reality, this often tends to be more interesting and engaging than the complicated truth. The truth may be a bit dull and uninspiring; the lie can be whatever you want it to be. You know what your audience wants to hear.”

embellish the truth
construct a new reality

and this is when lying becomes dangerous because lies, if said enough, can start to be believed.
Trump holds a position of power and a person in his position can cause serious problems with his inability to stick to the truth.

Even Hamas praised Trump. Like him or not his methods have brought peace to the middle East and yet people are too bitter to accept that.

I think it’s amazing he’s brought about this ceasefire and a potential end to the war and peace at last

The thread, however, isn’t about the ceasefire

Its about Trump lying about the Palestinians that have been killed

It’s an absolute disgrace casting a shadow over the deaths of so many innocent civilians and calling 58,000 of them terrorists.

How would Israel like it if he called all of the Israeli dead and hostages terrorists….. it’s a disgusting thing to say !!!!

I wouldn’t have thought he was calling innocent civilians terrorists at all.

I think it more likely Hamas is lying about casualty figures.

20,000 children dead was never a believable figure because then you’d have to believe the IDF was targeting kids which is totally illogical, or that number if correct which is unlikely, is mostly made up of some of the 30,000 14-19 year old child soldiers Hamas recruited during the war.

Israel knew Hamas would lie about them indiscriminately killing civilians as a propaganda tool before they went into Gaza, as they have in the previous smaller conflicts, hence the IDF taking extreme measures to avoid that.

Hamas obviously had a calculated plan to tell the most unbelievable lies knowing the Jew haters would believe and not question them, no matter how outlandish, as it reinforced their own view of the Jews.

There is a reason ‘Pallywood/Gazawood’ has long existed as a known practice by Palestinians.

Propaganda was their only real weapon against Israel before Oct 7th, it became a much bigger weapon once they realised that they could do what they did on Oct 7th and people would STILL be on their side and make excuses for them.

They could get away with anything easily, even with staged deaths designed to emotionally manipulate Western useful idiots and drive them into a frenzy of hate against the Jews.

You seem very keen to paint him as such.

7 posts in quick succession to get your point across.

Oh excellent. Let's all just uncritically accept this figure with no source as being 100% correct....

tbf telling us there was nothing wrong with Joe Biden's mental health for most of his presidency was a bit of a lie. It's a grand tradition in politics everywhere.

Very early days but this was some of the peace-deal precis, the practicalities are a mystery to most of us I expect but while hamas are on another killing spree I hope it's getting started.

• Gaza governance to be run by Palestinian technocrats, overseen by a new US-led international committee with Arab and European partners.
• Hamas excluded from governance; offensive infrastructure including tunnels to be dismantled.
• Regional actors to provide security guarantees against Hamas or other factions.
• US and allies to deploy a temporary stabilisation force in Gaza; Palestinian police to be trained for long-term security.
• Israel not to annex or permanently occupy Gaza; forces to hand over control as stabilisation units secure the territory.
• If Hamas rejects the plan, measures to begin in terror-free areas with Israel transferring control to the stabilisation force.

pp on another thread referred to China involvement and they have a posse of palestinian leaders (clan heads?) they're grooming to step up.

https://www.mfa.gov.cn/eng/wjbzhd/202407/t20240723_11458790.html

Doesn’t everyone believe Hamas, a barbaric terrorist group who’s sole aim is to destroy Israel, figures though?

Would you believe them over Western intelligence information?

Trump said that figure for a reason.

Whatever his faults, he’s not stupid.

Don't you like the truth. !

and once I started googling for that piece on Channel 4 that I watched recently I was bombarded by so much info on his lies why not post

Its mumsnet. Some of us appreciate the facts

there was so much more i could have added

I agree the figures of those killed may not be correct
This from a Lancet study

Gaza death toll 40% higher than official number, Lancet study finds
This article is more than 8 months old
Analysis estimates death toll by end of June was 64,260, with 59% being women, children and people over 65

Guardian staff and agencies
Fri 10 Jan 2025 18.47 GMT
Share

Research published in the Lancet medical journal estimates that the death toll in Gaza during the first nine months of the Israel-Hamas war was about 40% higher than numbers recorded by the Palestinian territory’s health ministry.
The peer-reviewed statistical analysis was conducted by academics at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, Yale University and other institutions, using a statistical method called capture-recapture analysis.

But he is a known prolific liar.

Unlike any other politician ever....and there was nothing wrong with Joe Biden's mental health despite the evidence, and Kier Starmer is right that you can't say only women have a cervix.

There’s a lot of it about 🤨

Doesn’t everyone believe Hamas, a barbaric terrorist group who’s sole aim is to destroy Israel, figures though?

Clearly not - have you not read the forum?

Hamas being terrorists doesn't automatically make this figure correct so I'm not sure what your point is.

Yes other politicians lie too. That doesn't make this figure anymore likely to be accurate.

Using the recent examples of urban warfare from the Battle of Raqqa and the Battle of Aleppo in Syria a typical combatant to civilian casualty ratio is between 3:1 and 6:1. So for every combatant death there are between 3 and 6 times as many civilian casualties. So assuming 60k have been killed in the Gazan conflict that would give Hamas casualty of between 10k and 20k.

Given the technology available to Israel and pre warnings my personal guess is that it would be closer to 20k Hamas killed and 40k civilians.

Which all things considered is relatively low for an urban conflict.

Its one of the highest surpassed only by two genocides and one massacre
of note we have no idea how many civilians been killed especially given the Lancet study and a lot under the rubble

Apologies. You weren’t supposed to get that recipe aswell 🤣🤣