Trump - ‘Hamas lost 58,000 people’

[TicklishMauveSquid]

Trump has stated ‘Hamas lost 58,000 people’ out of Hamas death toll figures of 67,000. Which gives a combatant to civilian ratio of roughly 6:1.

That figure is unprecedented in any war in history.

This would mean 86% were combatants.

He didn’t quote a source although he obviously has access to intelligence we don’t have.

Did anyone else pick up on this?

https://x.com/EasternVoices/status/1977309578317725988

I don’t place a huge amount of faith in figures stated by the man who said he had “brought prices down by 110%”. Prices are down 110%? The shops are paying you to take the products are they?
That’s not to say he wasn’t involved in these peace negotiations. But I don’t think it’s news to anyone that any specific details or figures that he gives are often completely incorrect/non sensical, and probably worth checking with a different source.

Especially when they involve those tricky things called numbers 🤣

Is the Lancet basing these estimates on an average war where an enemy army wouldn’t bother wasting time, resources and putting their own soldiers at risk by evacuating areas, printing thousands of leaflets, making thousands of phone calls. creating safe routes, etc, before commencing operations or targeted bombings?

If so, they are completely meaningless.

You believe Hamas though and Trump just pulled this figure out of thin air?

I didn’t say anything of the sort. I said that Trump’s facts and figures are probably worth double checking. I’ve no idea whether this number is correct, but he talks enough nonsense to make it worth checking most things he says. Just like I was surprised to hear him say he was involved in peace negotiations between Albania and Azerbaijan (and actually he called it Aberbaijan) - I double checked, turns out he meant Armenia and Azerbaijan. He’s not really a details man.

Just out of interest, if Trump had said on camera that Israel had killed 600,000 Palestinians in a genocide, would you believe him?

Would you still consider him a ‘consummate liar’?

It's such a simple thing to say that Trump lies. But in reality you don't choose to believe politicians because they're inherently trustworthy, you choose to believe them because you share their politics.

I have no comment on the meaningfulness of Trump's numbers here, they're less important than seeing the points in this 'peace plan' fulfilled, especially the points about sidelining hamas in Gaza as they seem to be hamassing again to the detriment of Gazans.

No its not

Thats why they are Internationally recognised. Because they are not based on bullshit and bias

I should imagine Trump gets his facts and figures from places the public don’t have access to information from.

I really don’t think he researches or gathers facts and figures, the same as any other politician wouldn’t. They have people for that,

I don’t think the odd slip of the tongue in misnaming a similar sounding country when speaking in public and having to remember tonnes of information is proof of anything,

Didn’t Biden call Zelenskyy, Putin? Do you feel the same way about him?

No because there is no proof of that at all
If it was backed up by actual intel and facts then I’d have to.

obviously
i don’t care who’s saying it
I care when people spout inflammatory lies
I care about facts and truth

They are internationally recognised as medical review journal, NOT for an understanding of military operations nor for estimating the numbers of dead in a war.

Again, on what have they based their estimates?

You seem to be of the belief they are accurate.

Really but Francesca Albanese seems to think 680,000 have died.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/press-briefing-francesca-albanese-16sep25/

Is she a ‘consummate liar’ too?

Mnetter FreedomandPeace has already explained this to you ( at 14:42 today ) in conversation on another thread

currently happening

this thread as attached

Part of that post on mids2019s thread

The majority of credible western sources have concluded that the PHM’s figures are accurate or underestimated. It’s extremely disrespectful to deny civilians’ deaths, whether by Trump or you.

No I wouldn’t believe that because in that link whilst she ‘says’ the figure comes from scholars she doesn’t offer any evidence of that or even name them

If she isn’t prepared to name the source I wouldn’t rely on it.

I wouldn’t know if she’s a consummate liar ( ie does it on a daily basis etc etc ) but she’s definitely not a reliable or unbiased source.

Are you not concerned that your belief in ‘Pallywood’ means that you have fallen for Zionist propaganda? Several reliable sources (not Hamas adjacent) have estimated the death doll is actually much higher than the 67,000 mark.

Exactly

and this surely is the Prime Point !

Whats

Pallywood ???

It’s reference to the fact Zionists believe that a lot of the disturbing footage we see coming out of Palestine is actually set up and contains actors to help further Hamas’ cause.

So some sort of YouTuber thing ?

Yes, I think it would be fairly obvious that anything Biden said would be worth checking as well.

Trump saying he brought prices down 110% is not an example of him having access to info that the public doesn’t have. It’s an example of him being mathematically stupid and/or having a propensity to just say things without the data and without thinking them through.

I really didn’t think that saying that because of his track record, Trump’s facts and figures were worth double checking would be particularly contentious.

I don't think it's so much that Trump is a liar (which he is as well)but that 58000 was the figure he pulled out of this air yesterday last week it was a different number!
Fair enough to debate figures but Id say using Trump isn't a great idea!

I’d hadn’t seen that I’ve not been on MN for a bit but I have responded on that thread.

So finally found something we can agree on, apart from the bit about not being believable, to quote you

“20,000 children dead was never a believable figure because then you’d have to believe the IDF was targeting kids”

I think you will find 20,000 or just shy is at least the figure so by your logic and something I agree with is that Israel did target civilians or at the very, very least did not in any way attempt to avoid them, but watching Israel drop 2,000 lb bombs on civilian areas would have illustrated that to any but the most biased