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Conflict in the Middle East

Israels airstrikes have targeted an ambulance carrying injured civilians towards the Rafah border...

308 replies

starfleet · 03/11/2023 14:59

The images coming through on news channels are horrific.

OP posts:
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HeidiInTheBigCity · 03/11/2023 17:55

NotTerfNorCis · 03/11/2023 17:25

Before we go any further. There IS a man going about filming himself, or getting others to film him, pretending to be in roles he isn't. He even picks up injured babies and pretends to be their father. (The real father could have been killed in the same Israeli attack!) It's very clear he's doing it for himself, he's fame hungry and a narcissist. We have loads of similar specimens in the West - the only difference is, he happens to be in a war zone.

In one video, he's pretending to be Israeli. There's no way this is Hamas propaganda - if it was, it'd be the most self-defeating propaganda ever.

I know whom you mean, and that does seem to happen to be the case!

I do not think he is necessarily a "crisis actor", though. Probably a deeply disturbed, given the circumstances he is living under and has been for years: brutally traumatised individual!

Look, I am on the record as "I have [excellently treated, by the very best that British psychiatry had to offer on the subject] war trauma - over this very conflict". I am really, really, personally struggling these days! I suffer from sudden, violent flashbacks but also intense "survivor's guilt". I am a white, British upper-middle-class woman, a corporate executive, a "women in tech" success story - and I am holding on by a thread! I have been seeing a therapist again, for the first time in a decade, since the war broke out!

... on balance, and here comes my actual point: I think there is at least plausible reason out there to consider the possibility that this man is not some Hamas-sponsored propagandist but a very traumatised, very damaged person who has had access to far fewer opportunities to obtain help!

Weddingpuzzle · 03/11/2023 17:55

Surplus2requirements · 03/11/2023 17:46

Why is it so difficult to understand people are horrified by the harm done to both Israeli and Palestinian civilians?

I know, this is not the horror Olympics FFS.

dadoodoodoo · 03/11/2023 17:59

@Fizzadora "There was no fucking justification for what happened on October 7th yet some apologists for terrorism seem to have completely forgotten that."

I agree there was no justification - but as you say it was a terrorist atrocity. Israel is supposed to be a civilized, democratic nation so I don't think it's too much for us to criticise it when it violates the international rules of engagement - as documented by the UN, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. I agree we should wait and find out what exactly happened in this case but there is certainly enough evidence over the past week to justify our concerns.

NotTerfNorCis · 03/11/2023 18:00

Sorry to hear what you've been through, Heidi.

It is possible this man thinks he's doing good by getting the story out. There's no way he hasn't noticed that the Israeli side is using him in their own propaganda though. And he won't stop.

OuiOuiKitty · 03/11/2023 18:01

Parkingt111 · 03/11/2023 17:28

There's absolute chaos in Al shifa hospital
The surgeons and staff must be traumatised by what they witness everyday yet still continue

The scenes from the hospital are just awful. I don't know how the medics keep going. So many people everywhere needing help and no space/supplies to treat them. It's unthinkable.

SomeCatFromJapan · 03/11/2023 18:02

@NotTerfNorCis that does make sense as everything else looked genuine. Unfortunately he is playing into the hands of people looking to discredit footage - and that happens on both "sides", there was huge denial around the 7 October stuff - but I suppose if he's more into self-aggrandisement he won't care.

NotTerfNorCis · 03/11/2023 18:03

The ambulance bombing is on BBC news right now.

graciousmouse · 03/11/2023 18:03

Ignore the derailers claiming "fake news". The same names pop up over and over again on every thread with the same propaganda and attempts to detract from what is really going on.

starfleet · 03/11/2023 18:06

Fizzadora · 03/11/2023 17:50

There was no fucking justification for what happened on October 7th yet some apologists for terrorism seem to have completely forgotten that.

I agree there wasn't. I have not said at any time that there was. Why do we all have to reiterate that we condemn Hamas on each post? I do, but it seems that any criticism toward Israel carrying out genocide seems to really bother some people.

This attack on injured civilians hoping to receive medical treatment was unjustified. They were in bloody ambulances. Hardly jumping out with weapons and shooting up to the sky.

OP posts:
HeidiInTheBigCity · 03/11/2023 18:06

NotTerfNorCis · 03/11/2023 18:00

Sorry to hear what you've been through, Heidi.

It is possible this man thinks he's doing good by getting the story out. There's no way he hasn't noticed that the Israeli side is using him in their own propaganda though. And he won't stop.

... also possible: in which case, he is quite stupid!

This would be what is commonly referred to as a "blue lie": it means "knowingly lying, but doing so in the belief that the (specific) untruth is still, in a generalised way true, on a more abstract level".

Generally not regarded as a particularly smart move!

But it does happen!

Parkingt111 · 03/11/2023 18:10

My heart really goes out to all the medics
To use the clichè 'not all heroes wear capes'
To continue to work and help under chaos
To carry out treatments without anaesthetic
I just can't imagine
And many are sleeping at the hospital
Going home for short breaks after days
Iv seen so many heart breaking videos when medics realise that the patient that has just come in, is sadly their own family member/s

Neriah · 03/11/2023 18:12

Dulra · 03/11/2023 17:25

Yes war is horrific but it does not mean innocent civilians can be targeted and killed. There are laws in war and if you break them you are committing war crimes which Israel (and Hamas) are

Yes there are. In language there is also such a thing as accuracy. I await the evidence that Israel deliberately took aim at ambulances with the intention of hitting them - which is the definition of targeting. An example of targeting would be deliberately entering a foreign state with the intention of murdering women and children, and taking civilian hostages as a shield against the ensuing storm. Interestingly, such an action is also haram - against the laws of Islam. Seems to be something else Hamas don't care about.

Fabrication · 03/11/2023 18:13

My freshers child at university has just texted me asking what charity she can donate to in order to help people in Gaza. She is very upset at what she has seen on the news and said she cannot believe what is happening there.

I know people have their biases but there are also many people out there like my daughter who have zero agenda. But they can see the horrors perpetuated by Israel right now and feel devastated and powerless. It’s the reaction of decent human beings to be traumatised by what is happening in Gaza right now.

SovietSpy · 03/11/2023 18:15

Yet again people attributing blame already before anything has been verified.

BBC news report 👇

Israels airstrikes have targeted an ambulance carrying injured civilians towards the Rafah border...
makingmebrighter · 03/11/2023 18:15

"If Israel had not seized territory by force and brutalised the Palestinians for decades, October 7th would not have happened. " @NotTerfNorCis

Ah, so they deserved it? Righto! Shock

ketchup07070 · 03/11/2023 18:16

@Fabrication Yes, and I think it's particularly awful to see babies and children suffering in such unprecedented numbers. Every fibre of my body says this is wrong, and most people feel that.

inkworks273 · 03/11/2023 18:19

makingmebrighter · 03/11/2023 18:15

"If Israel had not seized territory by force and brutalised the Palestinians for decades, October 7th would not have happened. " @NotTerfNorCis

Ah, so they deserved it? Righto! Shock

About as much as the Palestinians deserve it.

EasterIssland · 03/11/2023 18:20

Fabrication · 03/11/2023 18:13

My freshers child at university has just texted me asking what charity she can donate to in order to help people in Gaza. She is very upset at what she has seen on the news and said she cannot believe what is happening there.

I know people have their biases but there are also many people out there like my daughter who have zero agenda. But they can see the horrors perpetuated by Israel right now and feel devastated and powerless. It’s the reaction of decent human beings to be traumatised by what is happening in Gaza right now.

I’ve donated to urnwa

ChickHenLittle · 03/11/2023 18:20

I think everyone, well the large majority, is horrified but not surprised at the actions of the Israeli government/IDF at this point. I've noticed a small number of people, for some reason, still trying to defend them on SM, but it's followed by a lot of comments shocked/angry at the attempt at justification.
Still, our idiot of a PM actively supports them. Political suicide.

Parkingt111 · 03/11/2023 18:22

SovietSpy · 03/11/2023 18:15

Yet again people attributing blame already before anything has been verified.

BBC news report 👇

The IDF have confirmed it was them

Fabrication · 03/11/2023 18:22

EasterIssland · 03/11/2023 18:20

I’ve donated to urnwa

Thanks. Do you anything about the Red Cross/crescent?

Parkingt111 · 03/11/2023 18:23

The IDH have confirmed it was them
The murdering scum
Once again with the excuse that Hamas was there

Israels airstrikes have targeted an ambulance carrying injured civilians towards the Rafah border...
PinkTonic · 03/11/2023 18:23

Parkingt111 · 03/11/2023 18:22

The IDF have confirmed it was them

I literally just saw otherwise on the news

Parkingt111 · 03/11/2023 18:23

PinkTonic · 03/11/2023 18:23

I literally just saw otherwise on the news

Please do share

EasterIssland · 03/11/2023 18:23

Fabrication · 03/11/2023 18:22

Thanks. Do you anything about the Red Cross/crescent?

Probably I’d have donated as well. Urnwa was one of the first ones that I saw and some of their schools have been hit. Red Cross do as good in Palestine as urnwa