Can you ovulate before LH surge? Confusing BBT chart

[falsepositivenervous]

Hi all,

I know that we ovulate between 12-48 hours after a surge in LH, I've been using the OPKs for a while now. I've started temping properly in the last few months as well, and I always noticed that my temp would increase the day after I get a peak on OPK.

This month however my temperature increased the same day I got the darkest line on OPK (for info, I had a really long gradual increase in LH this month, first time that's happened for me, normally it's low and then all of a sudden BAM one evening it's peaked. I had darkish lines for two days, then finally in the morning my temp increased, I got the peak test, which is odd as I usually get a peak in the evening.)

I was wondering if any of you have ever had this? Is it possible I ovulated before the final surge? Could I have ovulated more than once? I didn't do anything weird on the night I got the first high temp (I've been sleeping in the nip cause it's so warm lately,so it's not like I had extra warm pyjamas on!). I woke up a bit earlier than usual, but normally for me when I wake up earlier my temperature is lower than expected as opposed to higher.

I've attached pic from fertility friend, as well as pics of OPKs and graph of their values. Would love opinions!

Hopefully dinnertime bump :)

It's possible you had a really quick surge if you only test in the morning.

I normally only test at night, I tested in the morning that day cause it had been high the night before but not peak.

According to FF I'm 4dpo, according to Premom I'm 2dpo. Temp has remained steady this morning.

I just went to the toilet though and have light spotting, and it's far too early for me to be having pre-period spotting (unless I'm in for some bizarro horror period which has happened before, but which I wouldn't expect as otherwise this period seems normal in terms of temp and ov time).

Am now googling for past posts where this might be a positive sign 😅😅 even though I know it likely means nothing. Has anyone else had this?

Hi @falsepositivenervous
That is a long surge the tests are showing - I had a similar thing this month which was unusual for me.
I'm pretty sure that the start of the surge is what triggers ovulation roughly 24 hours later. It looks like you had high enough levels to trigger ovulation even before your peak, if that makes sense?

Personally I would count day 13 before your temp rise as your day of ovulation.

Wishing you all the best :)

@falsepositivenervous
This video explains it much better than me....

www.instagram.com/reel/CsCdoPvP5Wv/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

@River30 oh brilliant thanks for that, I've given her a follow too! That explains it really nicely!

I'm going to count day 13 as ovulation day, which puts me at 6dpo today.

I've decided to keep on testing LH this morning (to know for sure I'm only getting one peak, and it helps a lot with the urge to poas), and what's funny is it's starting to slowly creep up again, which is interesting!

Let's see what happens this month anyway 🤞😊

Are you also TTC?

@falsepositivenervous LH also increases in early pregnancy or before AF

Sorry just realised I uploaded the pic from a few days ago

I've read that LH can surge before period, but haven't really seen anywhere that it would gradually rise. If it's because of pregnancy I would be pretty delighted 😂

let's see, I'll update in a while anyway in case anyone is googling in future who has something similar

If this kind of chart is a regular thing for you, I would recommend getting your thyroid levels tested.

@Swansandcustard I don't actually know if this is a regular thing or not, I've never tested beyond a day or so after getting a peak (and confirming with bbt). I had my thyroid checked about two months ago, everything totally fine and within normal range.

Would you expect it to be related to hypo- or hyper- thyroid issues?

Hi @falsepositivenervous
That's interesting - you'll have to let me know how your cycle goes.
I've had a really weird month with erratic BBT temps and 2 days of peak OPKs and then another peak 5 days later. It's not normal for me at all but I did have covid in the follicular phase. Its disconcerting but I'm trying to remember that it's one weird month isn't really an issue - it's fairly normal to have an occasional anovulatory cycle so that could be it.

And yes, I am ttc and have been for 1.5 years (I'm 30). Although just recently had a laparoscopy that found lots of endometriosis and PCOS. It's caused both my fallopian tubes to be blocked so starting IVF in July. Makes sense that I couldn't conceive :)
I'm tracking my cycles now more out of interest as I had a lot of endometriosis removed and want to see how my body responds. Also, I am totally still hoping that I'll magically fall pregnant before I have to start IVF 🙈

Heya @River30, agh that's annoying you had covid recently, it's such a pain in the bum. Did you see a consistent rise in bbt yet or do you think this might be an anovulatory month?

I'm so sorry to hear about your endo/pcos and blocked tubes 😔 I also have severe endometriosis and suspected pcos (I don't meet all criteria, but have some signs). That's so shit that both tubes are blocked, but it's also good to know that now and be able to come up with proactive plans!
My right tube is open, the left one probably is (but we couldn't see for sure), which is surprising as I have stage 4 endo and my ovaries are stuck together 😅 I think I ovulate most months, but I've only been doing bbt properly for about five months, before that I was just using opk's. I've never had a laparoscopy but I've heard that after having one is an ideal time to keep on trying, so I'll keep my fingers crossed for you! Keep on with the regular sex right up until you start IVF!

For me, in two months if nothing has worked we'll be going back to the doctors to discuss IUI as a next step. Like usual though I still have my fingers crossed for this month 😂 with regards my LH chart, I haven't tested today, but it went back down yesterday. BBT dropped yesterday but rose again this morning. I'm 8dpo today. Did a hcg test this morning because I couldn't help it, obviously negative 😂 here's my bbt chart, will upload the LH one once I've done it :)

Bbt

Hi @falsepositivenervous
Thanks for sharing your story, it's nice to hear from someone with some similar things going on.
I also don't have all the signs of PCOS - my androgens are normal on a blood test but an ultrasound showed 31 cysts and I have irregular cycles so that's two of the three diagnostic criteria which is what you need for a diagnosis.
I've really got my fingers crossed for you. Hopefully that was an implantation dip on your chart! And if it's not your month I really hope it happens soon.
I did get a BBT rise but couldn't tell you exactly when I ovulated. FF isn't sure either. I'll share my last two charts so you can see the difference.

Oh it's a bit hard to tell what with the multiple positive OPKs is't it! I would expect that you have ovulated on either cd15 or cd18 where it's put you. When are you planning to test?

With regards the pcos, I have loads of cysts ("string of pearls") and relatively AMH levels for my age (I'm 35), but my cycles are extremely regular and I don't "look" like I have it, appearance-wise, if you know what I mean. Maybe it's like a spectrum? I dunno 😅 have you taken any medication or supplements for the PCOS?

I had acupuncture this morning (it helps with the endometriosis SO MUCH, I haven't had any bouts of extreme pain since I started getting it regularly (except when I get the bill lol 🤣), I have to take painkillers I'd say 90% less than used to now. Not sure if you've had acupuncture but if not then def give it a go!), and after it my belly button was itchy/a bit sore, which I've been so hopeful about today 😂

I'm gonna try not to test again until the weekend, but if I cave earlier I'll try to limit it to once Thursday before the weekend 😅 period is due this day next week. Glad I have plenty of cheapies in at the moment!

Hi @falsepositivenervous
I've done a handful of tests this cycle, all negative. I know this isn't the case for lots of people, but it doesn't upset me at all getting a negative test/testing early in general. It kind of keeps me from getting carried away and convincing myself im pregnant :) I actually have a very strange situation where roughly half my cycles I get faint positives that never progress to a dark line - my fertility specialist looks at me like I'm mad when I tell him! I wish they could trust that I really know my cycle and I'm definitely not imagining the lines - my friends can see them too!! My theory is that eggs are being fertilized but can't make their way down to the uterus because of the state of my tubes.

Thank you so much for the tip - I've never tried acupuncture for Endo - I'll try and find someone for sure.

Re: PCOS supplements, my specialist recommended Ovaboost which has myo-inosital, coq10 and a few other things. I haven't noticed a change taking it but I don't really know if PCOS affects me too much - I am a healthy weight etc.. 🤷‍♀️

All the best holding off testing & hope you get the result you're after 🙂

@River30 I read your post this morning in bed and you know I totally agree with you, getting negatives when testing early doesn't upset me either, it kind of keeps me from getting way ahead of myself (even though I do anyway 😂). Did a test this morning and of course negative, but of course it is cause I'm only 9dpo 😂 the feeling is similar to waiting for exam results for an exam you haven't studied for, you know not to expect an A but you're hopeful regardless 😂

That's really mad that you're getting faint lines throughout half your cycles!! You don't have HCG in your system until after implantation, so I have no idea how you'd be getting positives so frequently if you weren't actually getting pregnant, but they weren't sticking for some reason. It's so rude that your doctor acts like you're crazy when you tell him, what is he thinking, that you're having really specific hallucinations every month in the form of seeing phantom lines on only one thing?

The other thing that would make me think, is how are the sperm reaching the egg of the fallopian tube is blocked? To me it sounds like there has to be a passage open for the egg and sperm to meet somewhere if they're making it to implantation (which could be outside the uterus as well)...?

If you're actually getting pregnant most months but they aren't sticking for some reason, maybe you'd need to ask about something that helps increase the likelihood of that, like taking baby aspirin or something? I don't know, but I really feel for you it must be so hard seeing positive tests and then them not progressing 😔

RE supplements, I haven't taken myo-inositol but I've read quite a bit about it. I'm also at a healthy weight, although over the last six months I've put on quite a bit of weight (I took vitex agnus castus, which lengthened my luteal phase but someone made me put on a bunch of weight really quickly, apparently increased progesterone can do that?) and now I'm worried that my weight is contributing to everything (even though my BMI is still within the normal range, just now I'm right at the edge) 😅

Yes, I know it's such a mystery isn't it. So my theory is that the sperm can get to the egg (i think sperm is much smaller than an egg) but the egg cant then travel down to my uterus. So i'm having recurrent implantation failure in my fallopian tubes. I know that it's a really specific theory and of course I have no way of really knowing - but I have no other way to explain it. My specialist tested my tubes by flushing dye through them and said one is completely blocked and the other partially filled but didn't spill out at the ovary end meaning there is a blockage there.

I'll attach a pic of a test from last month - faint but something there... much more obvious in person. Defs not indents as its every test that month. And then other months they are all stark white.

Thats wild that vitex affected you so much! Have you ruled out other possible causes of weight gain like thyroid etc?

Hope you're faring OK through this TWW :)

I've just started bleeding lightly and I honestly can't wait to begin a new cycle. Might try putting a new battery in my BBT thermometer 😂thrilling stuff

That's a very strong line alright, no mistaking that! Has your doctor talked to you about the risk of ectopic pregnancy? If they're implanting in the opera part of your fallopian tube...

Regarding my weight gain, it was def the vitex, all that month I felt supremely hungry, and ate non stop. I was so hungry it felt like the munchies after having a joint, but worse cause I haven't done that in years and I was entirely sober so I could have just not eaten 😂 I had a comprehensive blood test done recently (around the time I got my fallopian tubes checked out) and thyroid is normal. I've been on a sort of a diet the last two weeks and have already lost some weight, so that's good :)

What dpo are you? I think about 14-15 if I'm remembering right? Had your period fully started yet? I also like when my period properly starts after the TWW and getting non stop bfn's, I like to visualise it as clearing things out to be nice and fresh again 😂

I'm 11dpo now, bfn this morning on a cheap stick test. My bbt increased a little bit this morning, which is suspect is just giving me some false hope before the drop tomorrow or the day after 😂 my lower back is killing me and I have some cramping, so I expect that my period will start soon enough. It's due on Tuesday.

I hope you have a nice weekend! ☺️

Hey , not sure but I had a scan yesterday and they said it looked like I'd just popped the egg as they could see the corpus luteum but yet Ive had my surge afterwards! Started surging yesterday and today I had a positive opk

By the way , it's kinda hard to detect a pattern if you miss days or take at different times but I'd suggest take it for a few more days. FF put me down as having ovulated 2 weeks ago but I think its the hot weather messing up my temp as its resolved itself back to usual temp

Glad you can see the line and I'm not mad 😂 I think it was about 7 or 8dpo, so pretty early. He did say that it's almost better that my tubes are blocked as having partially open tubes are a high risk for ectopic - this way they can just safely bypass them with IVF. He disregards anything I say about the tests basically.

Wow, what a wild experience with the vitex. I can totally relate to that hormonal urge to eat everything in sight - I feel like that after I ovulate :) good that it was driven by something you were taking rather than being an imbalance/thyroid etc

Yep I'm on CD2, heavy duty pain and flow started Friday. This is TMI but naprogesic gives me an inflamed stomach so I've just been trying to bear the pain every month. This month Ive been prescribed voltaren suppositories and they have helped so much. My pain is usually so bad I can barely stand up so I'm stoked.

That sucks about the BFN 💙 have you guys been trying long? Of course anything can still happen this month... 🤞🤞🤞

I hope you have a good weekend too, I'm going to be gardening and chilling in the winter sun ☀️

Oh wow that's interesting, ok!! Good to know, thanks!

@River30 that's such a strong line for so early on, but there is definitely no mistaking it 😅

Argh I'm sorry you're having such bad pain. I haven't heard of Naprogesic, but I take mefenamic acid and minalgine for when I have the really bad pain, and between them they really help (mefenamic acid on its own usually helps). I hope that at least the worst days are over for now!

Been trying for a year, but properly (as I'm giving it everything I've got) for the last six months. I had a loss at 12weeks a bit over a year ago (wasn't planned pregnancy), and have been trying since then. I didn't know how bad the endo was until after (which to be honest has enraged me, because I see the gynaecologist every year at least for a scan because of ovarian cysts since I was 19. Plus I've been having extreme pain (vomiting and not able to walk or pee or poo) around my periods, basically just letting the damage continue. For ages they wouldn't give me proper painkillers either, kept telling me to take paracetamol and ibuprofen "it works for other women").

My bf is going to arrange a sperm analysis test this month, and then we will get the ball rolling on IUI for in the coming months (probably august as I have to travel for work in July).

My period still hasn't arrived, it's due tomorrow. I haven't bothered testing over the weekend because my temperature has started going down, so I decided not to waste any more tests. Usually I start spotting before my period, the last few months I've been spotting from 11/12dpo, but this month I've had nothing! I did seed cycling this month, and I think that maybe that has helped, cause the spotting is clearly because of some hormonal thing.

I hope you enjoyed your weekend! Are you in Oz btw? I went on a fairly big hike yesterday, which was lovely, but today my legs are in bits 😂 I'm in Switzerland, also I don't know if I mentioned, but I'm 35, 36 soon :)