Nanny looking after own DS and charges in nanny's home?

[KnitterInTheNW]

I've been a nanny for over 15 years and now have my own DS. I have finally found a family who sound v keen on me being their nanny for 3 days a week and taking my DS with me. I'm going to see them on Monday, and am making a list of things we'll need to discuss if it all goes ahead.

One thing I can't find any info about, is if it would be illegal to have the children at my house occasionally (We'd be at their house most of the time but just wondering about times when DS wasn't well etc, and wondering if on occasion she'd be able to drop her children to me on her way to work).

I know a nanny looks after children in someone else's house, and a childminder looks after children in their own home, but wondering where we'd stand with it being a sort of nannyshare (sharing the childcare between hers and my families, sort of).

Does anyone know where I can find this sort of info out, please? Or would it just a be something me and the lady I'm going to see would decide between ourselves?

What you're describing would be being a childminder. Call OFSTED for clarification but it would be illegal if you did it for more than 2 hours and were paid.

If you're a nanny you work outside your own home, if you're a childminder you work in it. One of the things that needs to be sorted out when nannying with your own child is what happens when your DS is sick - for other things to discuss search 'nanny with own child' threads in the forum.

Thankyou muchly

usually a childminder watches the children in her own home but i dont think it would be illegal if it was only say 3 times in the year if your child was unwell and was never on a regualar basis think its only illegal if it is a regualar arrangement

Ok thanks, I was wondering if it would be like that, ie not a regular thing, just in exceptional circumstances sort of thing.

I would read OFSTED's guidance as it stil being childminding if you were being paid as it says nothing about frequency that I could find.

"Childminding

Adults looking after children to whom they are not related on domestic premises for reward and for a total of more than two hours a day, except where the care is only provided between 6pm and 2am."

from OFSTED

Legislation is Childcare Act 2006. You will particularly want the Exemptions to the Act. If you search my posts I have linked to these documents in the past. Can't post links now as in mobile mode.

Am assuming nick means this:

"Exempt temporary provision

5.?(1) The circumstances referred to in articles 2(2) and 2(4) are where the provision is made?

(a) for a particular child?

(i) for two hours or less per day, or

(ii) for four hours or less per day and the provision is offered?

(aa) on a day to day basis with no longer term commitment to clients, and

(bb) for the convenience of clients who intend to remain on the premises where the provision is made or within their immediate locality; or

(b) on particular premises for 14 days or fewer in a year commencing with the relevant day, and the person making the provision has notified the Chief Inspector in writing at least 14 days before the relevant day.

(2) The ?relevant day? means the first day on which the provision is made on the premises in question."

from here.

So you would have to know 14 days in advance that your DS is going to be sick and write to the Chief Inspector about it!

There's an exemption for if the care provided (talking the in-your-own-home bit) takes place less than 14 days a year. Technically you are supposed to notify Ofsted in writing about it though (haven't a clue why!). I think that's aimed at one-off Easter holidy clubs and things of that nature where it's all planned in advance, because you can't give writen notice in advance if it's a 7am decision for that day. If we're talking two or three times a year then I really doubt Ofsted would care.

Cross post! It might we worth checking with Ofsted whether they would really expect you to give written notice in those circumstances.

Brilliant, thanks everyone.

Of course, not that I'm saying this, but there's the letter of the law.....and then there's what's workable. So we've discharged our civic duty and told you law says no, you can't do it....but we can't stop you and it's up to you if you think OFSTED will care or not as long as on occasion wasn't regular and it was an emergency, like your DS being ill.

Your insurance wouldn't cover you in those circs though, which is the other thing to consider.

I don't think what has been written here is correct.

If you are employed by a family as a nanny to look after their children then it is up to the employer to decide (within the terms of the contract of employment) where and how you do that. If they permit you to occasionally look after their children at your home, that does not IMHO make you a childminder.

Of course my opinion doesn't matter, and nor does Ofsted's, it is up to the courts to decide what law applies and how that law applies to the facts of any particular case.

As for insurance, exactly what loss and whose liability that would otherwise be insured do you have in mind?

Don't be too surprised if your potential employer is not in favour of you having the children in your home. Part of the benefit of having a nanny is not having to drag your child out of the house in the morning and knowing that they are playing in their own environment with their own toys etc. My nannies have all taken my kids to visit their homes occasionally but only for a short visit and not regularly (well one tried to make it a habit but we parted company!)

If you were my employee and occassionally wanted to take my monsters to go mess up your house instead of mine, I would welcome the idea with great enthusiasm.

And I agree with Mr. A that what OFSTED thinks about it is neither her nor there (which is but one example of why I am adomately opposed to licensing nannies).

However, I don't think I would jump for joy at the prospect of dropping my kids off at your because not doing to morning routine is my favourite part of having a nanny.

Mr Anchovy

The childcare act says that if care is provided in the child's home it's unregulated, if it's provided in the providers home then it is, excepting the exemptions above. Said exemptions say: you can look after children in your own home for less than 2 hours regularly, less than 4 hours occasionally not on an ongoing basis providing the parents are still on the premises (like a creche) and for fewer than 14 days with 14 days written notice as quoted above.

It is NOT solely up to the employer. The employer can decide that you look after the children pretty much anywhere other than your own home. Stupid, but there you go.

Insurance-wise - most nannies have liability insurance with Morton Michel, the NCMA or similar. This is to protect them and cover their legal costs if a child has an accident in their care.

The reason that insurnace may be an issue is to do with the definitions from here

Nanny is defined in the policy as a person contracted and paid to look after a child, working in and from the child's home.

The term minded child when used in this policy relates to children for whom you are contracted and paid to look after.

Nannyshare situations are automatically covered, provided you are within any OFSTED/other registering authority rulings on the number of children you take care of and any registration requirements.

So insurance would appear to only cover a nanny working in the child's home.

That's what the law says, the OP asked if it was illegal and she's been told what the letter of the law is. Whether it's abided by or not is a different matter!

Thankyou again for all your comments, all I was looking for really was info to go armed with, and of course it would totally be up to my (hopefully) employer what she did or didn't want me to do.

When I said about her dropping the kids off, I just meant in an emergency or whatever, and she works less than 10 minutes from where I live. I had a long chat with her when she called to enquire about what I could offer, and she sounds really down to earth and possibly might just want to go with the flow and for me to do what's easier for the kids on any given day.

As I said though, I haven't even met her yet but wanted to have info available for when the subject comes up.

It had occured to me about the insurance, and will obviously mention that to her during the conversation.

To be honest, I would not want you look after my child if you were looking after your child in your home because he/she is sick. If it was a standard nannyshare, the child would be home and cared for by mum/dad/auntie/grandma, and not the nanny.

I think you will have to look into alternative childcare for your own child in the event he/she is sick so you can go to work, like most other working parents. People usually dont combine their sick kids and work, so I am not sure you would be able to either.

As a parent, I would not want that, but that is just me.

Hope you are armed with enough info now
There are a lot of threads about nannies with their own child in the archives that will probably give you some scenarios to think about too.

Do remember (because I've been there, done that, and got rid of the nanny) that it's not the 10 minute diversion to your house that might be an issue, it's the whirlwind rushing around getting baby up, dressed and clean and in the car with it's bag whilst remaining in a 'straight to the office' clean and unfrazzled state yourself. - it is a huge benefit to not have to do that in the morning (especially if you only have one child so a nanny is generally more expensive than nursery).

I don't have any immediate backup if my DS is sick, my ILs live 20 mins away but MIL has parkinsons and FIL, well let's not go there! My parents live 100 miles away and could come to look after him for the next day usually. I wanted to show her different options of what we could do if he were ill, rather than just saying 'I wouldn't be able to come in'. There's DH, but to be honest he'd be rubbish with a poorly toddler.

The lady said her job is very flexible, but I do appreciate that there's a vast difference between having to get the children ready and out of the house, and just leaving them at home. I hope it would only be an emergency that she'd need to do that for though, and only if she thought it was worth her doing anyway.

She didn't go out looking for a nanny particularly, she saw a poster that I'd put up at a soft play place advertising myself and thought that what I was offering might be just what they're looking for. I think even though I'll be 100% professional, that it won't be a 'you're my nanny and we won't budge an inch' kind of employer, I'm hoping it will be much more relaxed and she would only be my employer because she has to be. If that makes sense!

Umm, MIL has parkinsns and some mental health issues, so while she wouldn't do anything to harm DS on purpose, she can be quite unreliable and just decide that she can't do stuff at the drop of a hat. I can't trust her on her own with DS really.

Whilst I'm sure Quint is not alone in her view of not wanting you look after her children when your's is ill, it is not everyone's view. I actually think whatever is going round is bound to come our way sooner or later so might as well get it over with. I would prefer an arrangement where you expose your child to our bugs and we expose our children to yours. That way, I don't have to take time off work. And, they are probably going to get it anyway.

Obviously, if it was something serious, I would feel differently. But seasonal flu/cold/etc. let's just get it over with.

That's kind of what I thought too. So I thought I'd tell her all the options should the situation arise, and then she can decide for herself if it would work for her or not.

Frakula I am not going to argue this here because it is irrelevant to the original poster, but can I suggest that you look at what the Children's Act actually says.

Now now, Mr A. Try and play nicely.

Not sure if this will help but as a parent I think my ideal scenario if nanny's child was ill would be

1. for sniffles/colds, nanny brings him/her along anyway and the kids have a quiet day - dvd watching etc (so I can still work), fully expect both families dc to catch it.
2. more serious illnesses e.g. tonsillitus, first couple of days of chicken pox..nanny to stay at home with child (or nanny's partner to be with child - dh and I always take turns for sick children - partners soon get good with sick kids if given the opportunity to practise ) BUT nanny to have made lots of nearby nanny friends who might be called upon to help out with the kids and in return nanny to help with their charges if nanny ill etc. (we used to have this sort of thing with one of our nanny's best friends who was a nanny for a friend of ours - meant that in emergencies we could all muddle through). If nanny staying at home with sick child would appreciate phone call as soon as possible (ie. not at 9am when it's obvious nanny has not turned up) so plans can be made.