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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

CM Club: NCMA Contracts and statutory public holidays

52 replies

sofewbraincellsleft · 17/10/2009 11:23

Does anyone else use the NCMA Contracts?

Have you noticed on the new ones section 16 where it states that you cannot charge fees for sph if the service is not available?

I am absolutely livid. Was doing a new contract for a parent and noticed this; I do not remember being informed of this change by NCMA, anyone else been informed or noticed this change in their NCMA handbook?

I am not sure if I can write in the 'additional notes section' that I do charge for sph even though the service is not available. As NCMA state the above in section 16, just not sure.

Any ideas how I can get around this apart from not using their contracts?

OP posts:

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Katymac · 17/10/2009 11:27

Increase your rates?

8 Bank holidays
assume 10 hr days

so £240 a year (@£3 an hr)
Divided by 52 divided by 5 adds about 92p a day to your charges

So adjust accordingly

nbee84 · 17/10/2009 11:27

Gets me popcorn - think this one is going to get interesting

You are self employed - why should you be charging for a service that is not available?

Original poster

sofewbraincellsleft · 17/10/2009 11:36

Thats not the point nbee84, haven't started this thread for a debate on whether it right or wrong that I charge for a service thats not available

KM: could do I suppose but don't really want to increase fees but a thought if no other way around it.

OP posts:

nbee84 · 17/10/2009 11:40

Apologies sofew - you are right, that's not what this thread is about. I expect you'll get a few opinions on it though.

MrAnchovy · 17/10/2009 12:29

The contract is an agreement between you and your clients so you can amend it as you wish. The only potential drawback is that the NCMA legal cover won't cover any amendments so if you have a dispute with a parent over your ridiculous policy of making them pay for something they cannot have, the NCMA are not going to help you.

If you are going to use the additional notes section to contradict something that is stated elsewhere in the contract, you need to make it clear by saying something like 'Notwithstanding the provisions of section 16 of this agreement, the normal charge shall apply for Statutory and other Public Holidays and the childminder shall not be required to provide any services under this agreement on such Holidays.'

Of course when you write it out like that, the unfairness of this policy jumps out at you. It may even not be enforceable under the Unfair Contract Terms Act. This policy is of course particularly unfair on part-timers who use Mondays as they will pay for proportionately more Bank Holidays.

So there is an answer and a debate .

TeamAlesha · 17/10/2009 12:41

It's outrageous to charge for a whole day, if you are not perpared to have the child

WailingGhoshe · 17/10/2009 12:42

The other option is to use Morton Michel who are fine with you doing your own contracts, or in fact using any contracts including their own or NCMA.

I have actually done my own for the first time, so that it is part of my handbook, which holds all my policies and my terms and conditions.

Original poster

sofewbraincellsleft · 17/10/2009 12:50

Just popped back on here amid doing the mounds of paperwork - CHILDMINDING EYFS RELATED - IN MY OWN PRCIOUS TIME, AT THE WEEKEND (THAT I AM NOT PAID FOR) - not that you have irritated me in the slightest with your post MrAnchovey; hand goes up to mouth, big hawn.

OP posts:

Original poster

sofewbraincellsleft · 17/10/2009 12:51

Hand over mouth again, big big yawn TeamAlesha

OP posts:

Original poster

sofewbraincellsleft · 17/10/2009 12:52

WGhoshe; yes did think about Morton Michel, have to have another think.

OP posts:

badgerhead · 17/10/2009 18:00

HOT OFF THE PRESS!!!!!
I have just returned from a meeting with the NCMA where they have listened to our complaints about the new contracts & have now redesigned them without the controversial bank holiday lines with a much better line in place. So they do listen to us!!!

Zebra33 · 17/10/2009 18:56

BIG YAWN TeamAlesha & MrAnchovy!! CM's get paid peanuts for the hard, physical, mental, emotional work they do, so if we require full pay for a meagre 8 days of bank holidays so be it!! Think of it as our bonus for the year!!!

nannynick · 17/10/2009 19:07

badgerhead - I should think so to. NCMA are a Member Organisation. Making a change to an important document used by members with little or no consultation of those members was bound to cause upset... thus potentially members leaving (thus drop in revenue for NCMA).
So it is good that they have listened to members opinions.

TeamAlesha · 17/10/2009 19:14

Actually I am a CM, and am very well paid. Therefore would never charge for a service I wouldn't provide.

ramonaquimby · 17/10/2009 19:19

this is why a lot of people don't see childminders are professionals.

don't bother yawning, I'm already in bed

nbee84 · 17/10/2009 19:32

Zebra - I agree it is hard, physical, mental, emotional work. I have been cm and take my hat off to all cm's out there with all the Ofsted and EYFS stuff. But disagree on the peanuts point.

If you only have one child at £3.50 per hour, then yes, the pay is low. But if you have 3 then it is £10.50 per hour and if you also look after 2 schoolies then it is £17.50 per hour for 2-3 hours a day and £17.50 a day all day in the holidays. I think this is good money compared to working in an office (for instance) and earning £8ph and minusing £3.50ph for a childminder.

leeloo1 · 17/10/2009 20:08

I'm glad that the NCMA are changing the contracts - although as I've just bought a pack and used 2 it'll be a while before I get the excitement of buying more and I doubt they'll be re-issuing them for free.

It did seem random on the contracts that you could charge parents for your holidays (as is standard round here) but not for BHs. I'd be interested to know what the new line in the contract says...

Scarfmaker · 17/10/2009 20:23

Just out of curiosity - are nannies paid for bank holidays?

Scarfmaker · 17/10/2009 20:23

Just out of curiosity - are nannies paid for bank holidays?

Scarfmaker · 17/10/2009 20:24

Sorry cat just walked across keyboard!

nbee84 · 17/10/2009 20:45

Nannies are employed unless they work in a temp or ad-hoc capacity - then they can be self employed and as such generally, no would not get paid for bh's.

An employed nanny is entitled to the same rights as any other employee, so would get 5.6 weeks holiday a year (which includes bh's).

xoxcherylxox · 17/10/2009 20:55

yea i understand they are employed so same rules as an employee would apply but then technically the parents are still paying them for a service that they are not providing because they are not working so kinda seems that same as childminder and shows some parents are happy with this.

nannynick · 17/10/2009 21:03

As a nanny I don't work Mondays, so I only get a few bank holidays as paid time off a year (assuming I'm not working on them).
Childminders are not employees, they provide a service so dictate the terms. A nanny can't dictate the terms... thus there are some statutory rules so that all employees get some rights.

Fruitbatlings · 17/10/2009 21:12

What's this?

I don't know any childminders who don't charge for bank holidays.....
Is that the argument? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

xoxcherylxox · 17/10/2009 21:16

it was orginally about the new ncma contracts saying that childminders cant charge bank holidays if they dont work them but then some1 asked if nannys get paid for bank holidays not worked.

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