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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

could my nanny be lying to us?

54 replies

Mar826 · 05/01/2009 14:11

Hi. I am in a bizarre dilemma. We have had what looked like a wonderful nanny for the past 2 years. The reason why the situation went sour is for Christmas, we originally booked a family ski trip in Italy. Everything was booked. On the day of our trip, our nanny fell ill, apparently due to food poisoning and remained home. A few days later, I spoke with her to see if she could come on a later flight and she named another medical condition explaining why she couldn't travel so I let her have the rest of the week off.

When we returned, I asked to see her passport so we could check if she did in fact have a valid visa for travel. Mysteriously, she didn't have her passport and had sent it away to her 'solicitor' the day we returned.

When we asked for the number of her solicitor so we could ask him to faax us the relvant pages of her passport, she didn't have the address or number and then told us she sent it instead to a friend that knew where the solictor's office was.

A week later, her friend still didn't receive her passport and her soliticor was on holiday the whole week so we don't know why it was so urgent for her to send. the only number she provided of solicitor was a mobile number and no one picks up.

it all seems very dodgy and she has a good track record with us, but now we don't know whether we were right to trust her. We are giving her one more week to get her papers in order and if she doesn't come through, we'll have to fire her. A nightmare, but any thoughts on what to do?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

flowerybeanbag · 05/01/2009 14:14

Is a current passport a condition of her employment? Was it clear when you employed her that overseas travel would be a requirement?

Obviously lying to you is not on, but just trying to establish whether not having a passport, should that be the case, is necessarily a problem as such.

Original poster

Mar826 · 05/01/2009 14:24

Having a valid passport was important as we do travel alot as a family and we did tell her we would need her to travel with us from time to time. Last summer we wanted her to come to Spain with us for a week and she wasn't able to because she was in the process of applying for a UK passport, supposedly. And we said no problem. I told her we would help with any visa issues/passport issues and help pay for lawyer fees if that's necessary. What I'm not comfortable with is the fact that now I feel as if she's being deceitful and hiding something and I don't know why. We just find it odd how she seems to be spinning and spinning the story....

OP posts:

Weegle · 05/01/2009 14:25

Well on the face of it, it sounds like she wanted to stay home for Christmas and didn't know how to tell you. Had she asked for that time off and you refused it? Can't imagine it would be overly nice for the nanny to be with your family working over Christmas if she could have been with friends/family.

Also - no matter if she is lying - you carrying on like this about seeing her passport - surely it's none of your business? Apart from to try and catch her out? Her passport is her private property, surely not for your inspection?! You would do better to say something along the lines "I hope you would be honest with me and say if you don't want to join us skiing, I'm sure you were ill and appreciate that wasn't nice for you, but if the same happens again and you don't fancy coming, please let me know in advance so we don't waste money on your flights/accomodation".

nannynick · 05/01/2009 14:25

What is the nannies nationality and do you have any doubts about their right to work in the UK status?
When you mentioned the trip to Italy, what reaction did you get? Were there any indications that there may be passport issues?

The passport situation as you describe it sounds odd... why does her solicitor/friend have the passport.

Assuming you are in the UK, as an employer you have a duty to check ID documentation when you take on a new employee. So I feel you are right to ask her for this documentation, as you are now having doubts.
If her passport has expired - then she could just tell you that... not a big issue - inconvenient sure. But by hiding the passport (which is what she seems to be doing to me, by saying it's with solicitor... now friend) that there could be something dodgy to do with that passport.
Obtain all the documentation you can - Birth Certificate, Passport, Visa, Driving Licence etc. Then take things from there.

Weegle · 05/01/2009 14:31

Nannynick, thanks for explaining why she has a right to see the passport - it seems bizarre on the face of it otherwise.

It still sounds to me like she didn't want to go with you though and so there's clearly a communication problem going on.

flowerybeanbag · 05/01/2009 14:37

She doesn't have the right to see the passport Weegle, she has a right and in fact is obliged as an employer to see something which confirms id and eligibility to work in the UK, which could include a passport.

If the OP didn't make this check when employing the nanny, she should do so now obviously, but can't insist that documentation includes a passport, or in fact any of the other things mentioned.

The issue isn't the right of the OP to see the nanny's passport, it's the fact that there may be a problem with overseas travel which has not been ironed out previously despite it being clearly set out as a requirement.

Mar826 you mention possible 'visa issues' and 'lawyer fees' indicating that you think there might be an issue with this person being able to get a passport in the first place, is that right?

Original poster

Mar826 · 05/01/2009 14:41

We have never forced her to go on holiday with us. If anything, we treat her like family and as she has no family of her own (her closest family members have passed away), we thought it would be nice for her to be with us for Christmas. We asked her if she wouldn't mind travelling with us as we would also have understood if she wanted to stay home. All this was booked in the summer. And the point about not knowing her passport situation is because we never questioned her documents before. I remember asking to see them when we first hired her but that was 2 years ago. I somehow think something has changed since then and she appears to be hiding it. (She holds a filipino passport).

OP posts:

nannynick · 05/01/2009 14:43

Some additional info/articles with regard to why employers need to check ID documents:

Daily Mail: Why ALL of us will have to produce a passport to get a job in Britain
Easy to read info regarding the Assylum and Immigration Act. Worded such as: "The act obliges employers to check that new employees are entitled to live and work in the UK by carrying out a number of
checks before employment commences."
More info for employers about Assylym and Immigration Act requirements
Assylum and Immigration Act 1996 - for those who want to read the legislation!
The Immigration (Restrictions on Employment) Order 2004 - more legislation, with regard to what documents are suitable.

flowerybeanbag · 05/01/2009 14:43

My visa knowledge is a bit rusty, but as a filipino national what is her right to work in the UK? I mean when you checked when you first employed her, she had some kind of visa at the time, yes? Do you remember what it was?

Original poster

Mar826 · 05/01/2009 14:45

According to Visa issues, as she has a filipino passport, she said for European travel she holds a 'Schengen visa' which might mean that we would not be required to apply for a visa if we travel with her in EUrope (i.e. Italy, Spain or France which would be the most likely destinations for us). Then she told me this visa was expiring in mid Jan, so I asked to see it so that I could note the exact type of Visa and then speak with a lawyer about extending it (until she gets her UK passport). So, yes, definitely a reason for me to see her paperwork and as an employer, I think it's only fair that she presents these documents if I ask to see it...or at least it shouldn't be a problem if I ask to see it.

OP posts:

nannynick · 05/01/2009 14:45

She's a filipino... are you in the UK?
Did you live in the Philippines and employ her there?

Original poster

Mar826 · 05/01/2009 14:46

She has/had a visa to work as a nurse. She still works in a hospital once a week to keep her 'nurse' status.

OP posts:

ponygirl17 · 05/01/2009 14:46

Maybe she had a visa and it has run out, she is definitely hiding something. Probably would get caught out at the airport. I would get it checked out for sure, a shame if she is a good nanny, but may be here illegally.

Original poster

Mar826 · 05/01/2009 14:48

Yes, am in the UK. She was working as a nurse in the UK before coming to us as a nanny. She just wanted to make the change from working in the neonatal ward to working as a nanny as she thought the quality of life would be better and less stressful. We have honestly been really good to her, never questioned her and so this is such a shock and very uncomfortable situation for us.

OP posts:

flowerybeanbag · 05/01/2009 14:50

So her visa for working in the UK is running out this month, is that right? If that visa is the basis on which she is entitled to work in the UK then of course you are both entitled and obligated to see it.

Without sight of something appropriate entitling her to work here, you must not allow her to work. Foreign travel is no longer the issue, if you have reason to believe, as it sounds as though you do, that she doesn't have the right to work here at all, that's the immediate issue.

nannynick · 05/01/2009 14:50

This seems to be getting very messy.
What outcome are you looking at achieving?

flowerybeanbag · 05/01/2009 14:51

Does her visa for working as a nurse not specify that she can't take on different employment? Excuse my rusty knowledge, but visas specifically for set occupations wouldn't normally allow that anyway would they? I may be wrong.

Original poster

Mar826 · 05/01/2009 14:52

Well her 'work' visa as a nurse is still valid for a year, but her Schengen visa (still not sure what that is), is expiring this month. I just want to see if this means she has two types of visas in her passport. Very confusing and I just want to know what the situation is!

OP posts:

nannynick · 05/01/2009 14:53

The visa she has may not cover any other jobs apart from the 'sponsored' job at the hospital. Visa rules are a nightmare and they have recently changed. If her visa is expiring, then it's time to let her go back to the Philippines.

Original poster

Mar826 · 05/01/2009 14:53

And I don't want to threaten her yet with firing her as we are waiting for her to confirm that her friend (in Wales) has her passport. Am hoping she will come clean. We think that if we tell her we will need to fire her for misconduct, she might decide to come clean. She absolutely adores our daughter and I don't think she would want to leave us, but I wonder if the lie is too big that she might have to do it...

OP posts:

Weegle · 05/01/2009 14:55

Yes agree, with the further info it really sounds like there's a visa issue and she's hiding it. I think you have to give her until Friday to produce a) the Visa or b) a phonecall from whoever is currently holding it. Tell her exactly why. Give her the opportunity to be honest with you to see if you can help fix whatever the problem is.

flowerybeanbag · 05/01/2009 14:55

Schengen visa is for travel to participating countries, not for working in the UK. I can't imagine her work visa for a specific occupation entitles her to do that one day and do a totally unrelated job for the rest of the week, it would normally be specifically a visa for working in that one job, not giving general right to work anywhere. Sounds as though you've been employing her illegally for two years tbh.

LiffeyAnnaLivia · 05/01/2009 14:56

Just because she has visa problems doesn't mean that she wants to dupe you. She probably still appreciates that you're good employers, but is afraid of being sent back or something like that.

flowerybeanbag · 05/01/2009 14:57

Why talk about misconduct and threaten to fire her for that? Just explain that you have concerns about whether her visa does in fact entitle her to work for you and need to check it, as without sight of that it's illegal for you to employ her.

OhBling · 05/01/2009 14:58

The work visa is given by the UK government and allows her to work in the UK.

The Schengen visa is a visa that is issued by a group of countries (including France, Germany, Austria and a couple of others - I can't remember which) and which allows you to travel, for holiday purposes only, to those countries. Shengen visas can vary in length from a few days to a few months, depending on completely random some complicated process within the embassies who give them out.

So yes, it would be entirely possible to have two entirely seperate visas in her passport as they're for different reasons and issued by different countries.

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