To not pay out, and let them take me to court?

[peeved123]

Not sure if I am just being stubborn, or if I should just let it go and move on.

Long story short; I used Lookiero (an online personal shopper service) who send out several items at an agreed interval and you can pay for what you want to keep and send the rest back.

I chose to keep 3 out of 8 items and paid for them. the return label provided was an Evri drop off one, and unfortunately I don't have a drop off point within 3 hours of me (yes, really). I emailed them 3 times asking what I should do and if they could provide and alternative return option. They initially ignored my emails and then I got one saying I had to return by the following day or I would be charge for the full amount (nearly £300!!). I decided I would have to just fork out on a Royal Mail tracked service and posted it the next day.

I have Royal Mail proof it was delivered, and even got an email from Lookiero to say they had received it.

Not long after, however, they said my return was invalid as I didn't use Evri, and that they hadn't receive the parcel. They have been trying to charge my account £278 every week for the last few months despite my attempts at trying to speak to someone to discuss the problem (I've only had generic AI responses). I have blocked the payments through my bank account.

Lookiero have since escalated it to a debt collector. I have gathered all my evidence, which took a long time, and sent it to them. They are continuing to say I owe Lookiero £278 and have added on a £25 fee taking it to over £300. My latest email from the debt collector has said Lookiero will now be starting formal court proceedings because I have not paid. This has been going on since the end of June.

I'm at the point now I just want it to go away, it's really stressing me out and I don't want to go through the court or have it affect my credit score. On the other hand, £300 is a huge amount to me and at this time of year will have a big impact.

What would you do?

YABU - just pay the £300 and consider it a lesson learned
YANBU - keep fighting them and don't let them get away with it

I have already contacted Citizen's advice, Resolver UK and Watchdog.

Sorry that ended up long after me saying I would keep it short.

What a flipping headache. But yeah, don't pay. Let them take you to court.
Am pretty sure insisting on Evri is considered utterly pointless when you have safely returned the items.

Yes, I've gone through them and had a generic reply from Lookiero to say that they will look into it. However the fact that they don't seem to have anything other than AI robots reply to anything means I'm not holding my breath and in the meantime they are still pursuing the money!

What a mess! I’m entirely on your side. Other people here have better advice, but surely they can’t send debt collectors without a court order to do so. Sorry if I missed it - does your tracked postage show successful delivery?

Making returning the good almost impossible sounds like a breach of contract. Their reference to a preferred postal serving from a collection point impossibly far away and at such short notice is such an unusual contract term that I think it would need to be flagged to you prior to you signing up for the service. Stay strong.

I just wanna know where you live!
Somewhere that needs a ferry crossing to get to a city?

As the orange man says "fight, fight, fight"
Saying they will take you to court and them actually doing it are different totally. Beware of solicitory looking letterheads. If there is real court action it will be recorded on court headed paper.

Contact all credit reference agencies to get any adverse data noted as "disputed" or "challenged". It only lasts for six years - England five in Scotland if not removed.

Demand any contact be in written letter format - for evidence. No telephone or text contact.

DH supposedly owed debts incurred by ex-wife of £40000 written off his file by this.

I think you should fight it.
why don’t you put this thread in legal. Mumsnet has some very helpful lawyers who give advice. I would expect you to have a line or two comment from one or two of them

The good news is that court costs in the small claims court are limited to around 270, so if you loose it’s not disasterouse.

It will take about a year from issuing court papers until you get an actual hearing. It may well be the case never reaches this far, many cases are just quietly abandoned.

The debt collection agency will deliberately try and make things scary for you, that’s what they do.

I think you need to sit back and decide if you have an arguable defence. Your liability is going to be determined under consumer law and contract law. Making use of chaptgpt would be very useful.

I'm not being flippant here but put this issue into AI and ask it to write a formal response. A friend of mine did this with regards to a long running dispute with a large energy company, they backed off after 2 years of unreasonable correspondence. Of course check it all out but it might be worth considering.

It's hard to see how they can win this. Just because something's in their contract it doesn't mean they can force you to comply if it's a unfair term and you have evidence they received the item. They’re just trying to scare you.

I say keep fight too, but I'm mindful that I'm saying that without having to commit my time to the fight!
You have all the evidence and the emails and tracking numbers - everything! You've don't nothing wrong and you don't deserve to be out of pocket for this.
If you have the time and the energy, I say fight it!

Just let them issue court proceedings, which they might do, then put in a defence. It doesn't need to be complex as it will be small claims, just write down what happened and how you returned it - Chat GPT can help put it into a slightly more legal format. Then they will almost definitely just drop the case. If they don't no small claims court judge will find against you. Just don't ignore court papers if they arrive as that's how you could find yourself in trouble.

I tried that before but didn't get much response

Yes, it shows delivery. However, the delivery picture just looks like they have chucked it in a doorway! I did then get an email from Lookiero though to confirm receipt... (which they now deny)

There is a ferry to take us to the mainland however we can travel by road also...both take about 3 hours.

I've been using chatGPT for months, helping me to respond to emails and write the letters of complaint, offering advice where else to seek help etc. but none of it seems to have registered with Lookiero

Have you got legal expenses cover on your house insurance? Ask for legal advice from them.
Alternatively, let them issue a claim and respond to it with your evidence. Check your credit file and make certain that if it shows a default that you get that rectified.

We live in a remote location too. Think excluded from most free delivery due to ‘not Highlands or Islands’ rules. That doesn’t negate their responsibility to make the full terms of the contract clear prior to you entering into it.

have you heard of islands?

They have acknowledged receiving the items back. They cannot insist on you using Evri. Stick to your guns. If they are stupid enough to take this to court, they will lose.

Their FAQ says “If the return is made with another courier, we cannot be held responsible in the event of an incident” which implies another courier can be used, just not guaranteed as “safe”.

When a court sees that you have
a) returned the items
b) received proof
c) demonstrated this to the company
d) been sent items by a company who will reasonably know that your return option with them is 3 hours away

they will throw it out, if it even gets to court.

I understand it’s stressful and potentially time consuming, but agree with previous advice to fight it. Bastards

As a matter of interest, what delivery company do they use to ship the goods to you in the first place?
Can't be Evri as you say they don't cover your area so it seems odd they insist on using them for returns.

I’m also a little confused, who delivered it and why couldn’t you organise a Evri collection yourself?

also are they saying they didn’t receive the parcel at all,or that the items were not in the parcel?

Evri issues another company (local courier) to deliver here, I think it must be sub contracted out

When you say you have contacted Citizens Advice did you do that via their website/helpline or did you visit your local Citizens Advice Bureaux? I think I know where you are based on your distance to a city and the ferry/road option and if I'm right your local Bureaux has done some good work on the 'postcode penalty' for people living in rural areas over the years and I'd definitely reach out to them directly to see if they can help.

This might be worth a try: https://www.retailadr.org.uk/