to insist dad pays for things at his house?

[Stressymadre]

ExH and I have been separated a good few years now. We have 70/30 split technically, although our eldest spends most of his time here, and exH doesn't have them much in holidays. ExH is a high earner, but is is self-employed so what he declares as income is not what he actually pays himself as he puts a lot of expenses through his company (yes, I know this is illegal but not much i can do). He pays maintenance based on his declared income and on the number of nights he's meant to have the kids. I haven't asked for more as tbh he's a nightmare to deal with and we get buy. I have a good job and am sensible with money. When we were divorcing he stopped paying himself anything until I paid a solicitor to get involved.
Anyway he has started refusing to buy the kids anything except food when they are at his and has told them they need to get me to buy them stuff to keep there as he pays me a "bloody fortune" in CM payments. To add insult to injury he splashes money around himself like it's growing on trees but won't buy his kids deodorant or clothes ffs!
Any advice on how to manage this? Shall I just provide the kids with stuff to make sure they are provided for there or make a fuss and have himself potentially stop paying altogether? Kids are teens btw so not cheap!

Surely he can't refuse to pay his CMS? Make him buy more! Wouldn't it be nicer for them to have their own set to toiletries and PJ's etc that always stay at his house? He should take them shopping to get kitted out then replace as needed

Do they even want to go at all? They must be old enough to understand that their dad is a shit, personally I'd let them go less but send with basic toiletries, I would want my dc to have what they need and know that they know I'm providing it.

ETA they will have little to no relationship with him as they get older, and realise exactly who he is, without you ever having to say anything, the only one losing out here is him

He is hugely manipulative @Lovelynames123 so it fluctuates a bit as how they feel. He can be awful snd utterly utterly selfish but then does some big grand gesture or plays the victim and they forgive... it's so hard to watch. They do also have a half sibling there that they love to visit.
@Sprinklesandsprinkles he can pay himself nothing or minimum wage if he wants to screw me over, in which case his CM payment liability would be next to nothing.

@Stressymadre My XH can be a bit like that, although he does provide financially. It all came to a bit of a head when they went to his for the weekend, he went off to do something he'd said he wouldn't, so they jumped on the bus back to mine. There was a bit of a stand off but eventually they sorted it out and things have improved. I didn't get involved at all and he said they were old enough to make their own decisions

I think when they're teens you have to be there for them but take a step back. If you can survive without his money I wouldn't be letting him make any demands on you, he will soon pipe down if he's only fighting with himself!

Have you showed them the hard figure of what he pays, what income that would be equivalent to? Let them work it out for themselves.

@Pootles34 I dont feel comfortable getting the kids involved in the financials tbh. So far I have just said that he pays CM to contribute to extra costs as they spend more time here but he is responsible for things at his place. But. I always give in and get them stuff to take there, or they just take things from here in their bags, never to be seen again! It just feels so wrong when he earns nearly twice as much as me and that he has them less than he is meant to, that i am picking up extra costs, whilst he spends his money on himself

How much is he giving you?? Can you manage without it at all?!

id be so tempted to cut him off and pursue through cms even if it means he pays himself nothing and you get nothing - then he loses his power

He is obviously a selfish horrible person. But for the sake of the children I would treat their visits like I would a holiday so they take toiletries etc with them when they are there but they bring them back. Tell them to keep them in a toiletry bag at their dad's and make sure to bring them home and then it's ready for next time they visit
The same with clothes and shoes , tell them not to leave anything at their Dads.
It's annoying and unfair but one day I'm sure your children will realise what a manipulative unpleasant person he is and will still wantingbto vist

Your kids are old enough to pack their bags and bring their belongings back so I would let them do that.

Given he has been misleading them re finances I would also explain how child maintenance works and let them know how much he pays as well as what salary that equates to (they can work this out on the website). I wouldn't comment on how much he actually earns and should be paying, they can probably figure that out themselves.

How old are they kids?

What kind of things is he expecting you to buy. And does he already pay more maintenance than the statutory amount he has to.

As another poster said, the kids wont have much of a relationship once they get older and realise what hes really like. What happens if they go to uni. Money will be an issue then and they'll see who he is.

Thanks eveyone. The kids are 12 and 16. He does pay CM yes, but half what he should do and he mentioned last month that he needs a chat as he needs to stop it as his mortgage payments have gone up and his gas and electric too. So I have no doubts it is going to go down, possibly to zero.
He asking me to provide all clothes for his house and toiletries.

Just say no - you can’t afford to pay for clothes and things for his house.

just go through cms (even if that means he managed to get around it by being self employed/ you may as well if he’s threatening to take away the he payments anyway!

and stop talking to him about any of this - they aren’t little kids - you don’t need to speak to him anymore ! He can message the 16 year old to let them know what time he’s picking up or whatever.

He's a dick . He'll always be a dick. Just get your kids stuff they 'll need at his house that they can keep there, in a bag or similar. You shouldn't have to but it's what's best for them. Despite him. They'll understand soon enough.

Yes this - exactly this. Also don't talk to your kids about what he does/doesn't contribute as others have suggested - that's completely unfair, they're kids and it's a form of manipulation. Don't buy two sets of anything, just let them take a suitcase with them each time they go and bring it back when they depart. If they observe that this is annoying you can absolutely tell them to talk to their dad about him providing things for them that stay in his house.

Yeah I agree i think. Send them with a bag. Causes issues getting it back here as they go from school to his to avoid handover (cos he is a dick as people have rightly pointed out). Do i message him about it or just speak to the kids and say this is what you can do going forwards? Im torn between messaging him so he doesn't think he has won again (!) And that i am a pushover but I know this leads to high conflict which has huge impact on me. The divorce itself was awful (he was abusive) and it damaged me a lot so standing up to him and having fights is something i tend to avoid unless absolutely necessary.

Just speak to the kids. If they are taking anything bigger than a rucksack with them, can you ask school if there is anywhere they can store their 'luggage' on the days they are coming home? I know people will say: 'It's a school, not a left luggage area in a hotel or a station!' But I know a kid who does this as they have to travel quite a way to get to/from their dad's and their form tutor takes the bag and keeps it in the staffroom during the day. Pragmatic solutions (and kind people!) exist.

What do the kids want to do?

Tbh I'd be guided by that. I'd tell them that at their ages it's up to them whether they visit a father who refuses to provide them with the basics beyond food or make them feel welcome and valued.

If they have a good relationship with him, then fine, pack a bag for them and ask them to remember to bring their things back. Vinted is good for stocking up on second hand stuff so maybe you can get some stuff for them to take quite cheaply?

If they don't want to go, why should they at their ages? You're fortunate that you can afford a happy, if not extravagant, life for the three of you. And your ex may find out sooner than later that you reap what you sow.

I wouldn't message him, let the kids deal with it. It's really unfair but I'd just let them take stuff from yours. If they go straight to his from school then let them take a bag (or put stuff in their school bag). I'd say to kids "fine to take things but make sure you bring them back otherwise you won't have <favourite hoody or whatever> at home". Is 12 yo up to managing that?

If they need toiletries at his, I'd get them some cheap ones to leave at his.

I've worked in a few schools and every single one of them would find a way to accommodate this. Schools and teachers are used to helping children manage their lives when one of the adults is being a twat.

Absolutely, totally agree with you.

The whole reason there's a reduction for overnights is because hes meant to provide for them when they are there! What a twat.

Having said that, I would send what they need as I wouldn't want them going without. That's not fair on them.

If he won’t buy stuff you could provide basic toiletries for them to leave there, and they take their own clothes. You’ll prob need to be on it with reminders to bring things home! I don’t know how far it is - hopefully near enough that anything essential could be retrieved relatively easily. It’s not ideal but it sounds like the it’s the least worst option.

You can't force him to do anything. He's not reasonable so can't be made to do the right things by the kids . Just accept it . Save yourself a lot of headspace. Let them build up a box of things that can leave at his place . Or if they want they can have small backpacks .

Even better just use his deodorant, toothpaste , underwear ?!. Put a toothbrush in their pocket .