To find this HR ‘punishment’ extremely generous?

[Kayleeees]

This all happened earlier in the summer but I only found out what happened from another colleague last night when having some drinks after work.

I went on a girls’ city break trip in May, I was quite newly single (context to become clear).

A few days later whilst in the office on a break in the staff area I voiced to a colleague I am friends with that I had a bit of a sore throat and had done since I’d arrived home.

A male colleague who had been listening in whilst sat having his lunch said ‘that will be all that sucking cock you were doing’. I did call him out there and then, he made some excuse about it being a joke and that it’s a meme that is what happens when newly single people go abroad. My colleague also had a go at him.

I made my manager aware who encouraged me to report this to our HR dept. A few weeks down the line, I was told it had been dealt with and strong action was taken but I couldn’t be told what it was as it’s a confidential process (fair enough). My manager said it wouldn’t happen again.

Fast forward to last night, and I found out that all he got was a verbal warning…I’d have expected at least a written warning surely which would hang over him for a bit? The verbal warning has no recourse and if he did this again, only then would it go down the formal route.

AIBU to feel this was a bit soft?

Yup. What a disgusting wanker. I cannot believe - in this day and age- anyone even thinks like that, let alone says it. Sh out kid have been on a final written warning if not sacked on the spot. Attitudes like that don’t belong in decent society.

You can ask for a copy of the discipinary policy and see where what he said matched their description of 'measures' to take. And if it doesn't match, then query this with HR.

I'd also expect a higher punishment, a written warning at a minimum but a verbal does still stay on his record.

I know two males on our graduate program who were sacked for making similar comments. Couldn’t have been more proud of my company.

Do you know it’s actually true though?

Could it have been a different warning?

As others have said, most places I have worked would see that as gross misconduct.

Verbal warnings aren’t even advised by ACAS anymore. Worth checking the policy, it sounds like it was a sanction from a formal process.

Is the information that he only got a verbal warning reliable OP?

I am confident as can be that it is, sadly.

Verbal warnings are still recorded on the HR record in my workplace and come with a prohibition to applying for any other roles during the warning period, can you ask HR exactly what a verbal warning consists of in your workplace.

it would be a sackable offence in my workplace. Employers have a duty of care to PREVENT sexual harassment now, not just deal with it (badly in this case) when it happens

HR don't punish people and they're not there for you. They exist to support the employer to keep the workforce working and quash any glitches that might get in the way, in the way that keeps the company safest from legal action.
They will have made this decision weighing up how much fuss you were likely to make (would you take action against them if they failed to protect you from SH?) against how much he would make if they treated him 'unfairly'.
The verbal warning means they can fairly move to next stage if he does it again minimising the risk of challenge from him.
Personally I think given the new laws and the extra onus on employers, they could have safety gone for at least a written warning. But much depends on the culture they've set so far and whether you have robust policies all staff have signed, whether such comments are generally tolerated, whether staff recieve anti SH training and so on.

HR will have taken into consideration anything that he has said too. If he had a spotless record, he may have used something going on in his personal life as an excuse for his behaviour and claimed it was a one off mistake. However a verbal warning is not strong enough a response in this case, whatever he said was going on with him.

This is exactly the sort of incident where I would get someone in and give them the bollocking of their life and leave them in no doubt that if they ever set a toenail out of line again they will be gone with “dismissal for sexual harassment” on their reference forever more.

much more effective IME than the machinery of a formal disciplinary and written warning.

That is awful. In my view sexism in the workplace has not really improved over the last decade. 15 years ago I was working as a newly qualified accountant for a large firm. There was a drink culture and this was prevalent at regular events to celebrate promotions. I attended out of politeness, I am ethnically Indian and I do not drink very much. To cut to the chase, one Manager (not my line one), got drunk and asked me in front of a large group if it was true that Indian girls vaginas (not the word he used) were shaped from side to side rather than up and down as he had heard this from a mate.

The Monday after it was me that got called into the Partners office to be told it was only a joke and thanks very much for being a good sport... I cannot tell you how humiliated this made me feel.

As a a Manager now a verbal warning is not enough. I would provide a formal written one which would sit on the file. I would also be clear that any further similar events would result in dismissal. It would be very difficult to move from a verbal warning to dismissal and this individual may have heard that this is not a really important matter.

Id have sacked him I think.

From this month employers are required to take all reasonable steps to prevent sexual harassment (previously they needed to just take 'reasonable steps'). Any half way decent HR team will be very aware of that.

The important thing is that this conduct is stopped. I don't know what form the 'verbal warning' took, or its implications; it would be worth looking at your company's disciplinary procedure to find out and consider whether you think it constitutes all reasonable steps. I hope you are not subjected any more such incidents but in case - worst case scenario - you or other female colleagues are, your company could be liable through having failed to protect its employees from harassment.

Verbal then written then out would be my expected order of events

it does take time for change to happen

I would have brushed it off personally

Well done to you.

I had an incident like this where I work. The guy said something quite similar. I was the manager handling his disciplinary and I gave him a written warning. Then the woman he'd said it to left and then sued us for allowing the harassment. He (of course) ended up being shit at his job in a number of related ways - as you'd expect from someone with so little self awareness/ such bad judgement.

Never again. Next stupid man to run his mouth off in this way I'll just dismiss him.

What you want is retribution. What your employer wants is no repeat offence. They are two different things. Honestly I would settle for the verbal warning.

The law changes at the end of this month. It may be that HR's policies on how to deal with these complaints are changing with it.

We're all currently going through compulsory training at work so we sre aware of the changes, and I know friends at some other companies are doing similar.

Hopefully you won't ever have to deal with this again but they may not seem as generous in future if you do.

It wouldn’t be gross misconduct

Check your disciplinary policy. Presume your organisation still uses verbal warnings, and there will be, or should be, a statement of how long these lie on file, and possibly a (non exhaustive) list of potential things that might merit the giving of a verbal warning, things that might merit a written one, etc. HR won’t make the decision btw, or shouldn’t, again your policy should detail the process. A manager should have been designated to deal with the matter and make the decision, they will most likely have had the option of a more severe penalty and for whatever reason, eg previous exemplary behaviour, etc, have decided on a verbal warning. As you know, the process should be confidential and you have no automatic right to know the outcome.

It absolutely could be, depending on the relevant workplace policy.

I think a verbal warning is acceptable for a first offense that was reasonably minor. I'd expect a stronger response if a similar incident were to occur, hopefully he has learnt his lesson.