To think you should be able to be honest with friends when they are making poor choices?

[WhoGives2Fucks]

Long story short one of my best friends had form for choosing poor partners first was a bit abusive but they were very young and drifted so good.

Second was a nice enough guy but feckless - wanted to smoke weed all day and drink alcohol, would get sacked and was useless.

Third was abusive and love bombed her but was evidently a psycho within the first month. I remember saying that’s a red flag but she ignored me and moved in and then got pregnant and we (several friends) told her it would be a huge mistake to have a baby with him but she did then realised how dangerous he was so fled with baby and life was hard and she says she wouldn’t have had baby if she’d have known how hard it would be with the psycho ex

She had a few flings over the years who all love bombed then fucked off.

She met a guy about 5 years ago and she knew who he was and started pursuing him. Initially he said he didn’t want a relationship but she pushed and then they began one, though it was basic and they’d only spend one night together a week. He had 3 kids and they aren’t in a position to live together- thank fuck as she’s have given up her housing association house go and moved in with him!

Over the years he has become more useless and she gives 90% and he gives 10%. She panders to him and does everything to make his life easier and is alway there in sickness and in health. He is absolutely not and only wants to see her 2/2 times a month! He has kids and my friend adores them but part of the reason is became he DC in an only child so she wants the ‘happy family’ for ho DC and her DC calls him Dad which imo was silly to start as he is his first priority over Ann’s above his own children. He’s not abusive but he absolutely isn’t a good partner and he gives her the crumbs. She bends over backwards to help him and he absolutely would not do the same. He cancels plans with her to see his mate. He’s had significant health issues and she’s cancelled work to be with him and now she’s going through health problems he’s no where to be seen. So much more to say but not the time.

I’ve to her that it’s not equal and he’s taking piss. I feel like I’m making her feel
crap but it’s so frustrating watching somebody being a doormat and accepting it! I’ve said she should tell him to fuck off but she doesn’t want it to end as she’ll be ‘lonely’. I feel like banging my head against a wall. I sent her some messages tonight being honest and that she could so better and she’s not replied so probably a bit annoyed but FFS have some self respect and stop allowing yourself to be a doormat!!

I meant I can’t make her leave him but it’s beyond exhausting watching someone make shit choices that negatively affect them time and time again. Oh and he’s a functioning alcoholic to make things worse!!

Just to add she didn’t have an abusive childhood or the like. Parents still together and help out.

I try to be a good friend as I know she absolutely lovely and I want the best for her but she keeps choosing these waste of spaces!

You sound like a good friend. Unfortunately it's the leading a horse to water situation. Hopefully she will see sense at some point!

People often need to make their own mistakes, but it gets very draining watching a friend derail their life over and over again. Especially when you have to be the shoulder to cry on. She’s obviously got severe self confidence issues if she thinks she’d rather put up with this than be lonely. She needs therapy. What you can do about it is another question.

It's her life. Leave her to it and accept her choices. Support her and be there as her friend. As you say, you can't force her to do anything - and unless she's specifically asked you for advice, she doesn't have to take it. It's her choice.
As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't force them to drink it! If she wants to stay, then you're fighting a losing battle. She will know what she's living with.
If it drains you to support someone like this (I get it, I have a family member who is similar) then maybe you can focus on other things. My family member no longer talks to me about her relationship, I never see her partner and if she's feeling down I do support her with whatever she chooses to do, but that's it. I've stopped telling her to leave, and it has taken a huge stress off my shoulders.
If she does leave, of course I'll be there for her, and I'll still be around until she does.

Thank you I appreciate this. I’ve added this next bit to my OP but I try to be a good friend as I know she absolutely lovely and I want the best for her but she keeps choosing these waste of spaces!

What do you do as friends? Or are you another mirror for the drama in her romantic relationships?

Your friend sounds a bit vulnerable, and probably has very little self-worth and self esteem.

She probably knows deep down this man isn’t good for her and she deserves better. But doesn’t want to hear it and isn’t in the headspace to do anything about it.

You’re doing all you can do OP. It must be incredibly frustrating for you. No matter how much you try and make her see sense, she’ll only do something about it if she wants to.

Sadly there isn't much you can do. Do you think she at least realises she keeps choosing bad man over and over? Would she be open to going to therapy?

She’s got to reach this point herself. You’re a wonderful friend, she’s very lucky to have you. It’s so hard watching people go through painful episodes.

Not sure what you mean by ‘mirror in the drama’??

We live an hour away and she works for herself 9-3 so we can’t physically see each other and that waste of space wouldn’t offer to look after her DC so she could have time with me or anyone.

I have a chidl with learning disabilities so I can’t do much.

Yes we discuss it daily. She’s lovely looking and has a great personality and never struggled with men and that’s why it’s more frustrating as she’s amazing

You are getting yourself worked up, angry and frustrated over something you cannot control. It’s time to step back. You sound over invested in your friend’s life. I understand it’s very concerning to watch her waste time in a pointless relationship but she has to come to this realisation herself. She is presumably a grown woman. Just let her live her life as she sees fit. Hopefully over time she will develop some self esteem and make better choices.

I have a good friend who has spent the best part of 20 years lurching from one disastrous relationship to another. She has an uncanny ability to fall in with men who are a complete waste of space. I realised some time ago that I was expending too much energy trying to get her to see sense and now we just avoid the subject of her boyfriends when we meet up.

@WhoGives2Fucks step back a bit. She’s dumping everything negative onto you then goes back to living her life, probably quite happily.

I absolutely agree with you and would say exactly the same, but I don’t think I mentioned in the OP that we speak for several hours a week. We speak hourly 3/4 times a week and usually about the misgivings of her OH. It would like to say ‘not about Jon’ but feel it will go down like a lead balloon though I agree it’s coming to that

In this case you are sort of being used as her emotional dumping ground. It gets quite draining over time. Is she open to going to therapy at all?

But is her choice focus on your life and stop obsessing about others deliberately making bad choices you cant control people

I agree. She’s been to therapy 2 times in the past most recently the abusive psycho she had a child with. I didn’t know there is any assistance or therapy if you get with half wits? She’s in no danger they’re just selfish? It’s as if she needs an outsider saying pull yourself together

You make it sound like I’m ‘obsessing’ over a random. This a my best friend, she’s utterly delightful, gorgeous and funny. We speak most days for at least an hour and we discuss in depth her situation etc…you make it sound like I’ve made it my business and that’s nonsense. She speaks to me daily and 80% of the time he comes up. I’m not going to fuck off I don’t want to hear it (though sometimes I’d like to!) so using words like ‘obsessive’ is no help at all as I don’t want to be involved yet here I am

It sounds like you're scared to say "no" to her.
You can and should say "well you know my thoughts about him, let's talk about something else"
If you don't feel able to do that, it's not a friendship, it's just allowing her to vent. She certainly won't be doing this to all her other friends, and if you don't want this role, only you can change it.

The way you have been posting makes it come across to me as intentense and obsessive, it may not be the way you are in real life and I am perfectly fine with people disagreeing with what I have said but it is the way it seems to me

Sometimes being a good friend means just listening, accepting and supporting rather than trying to change someone. She’s obviously not going to take your advice to leave this bloke no matter how right and well meaning you are, so what’s the point in frustrating yourself?

I hear you Op. I have similar with a close friend. I have heard all of the wrongdoings, arguments, the letdowns at the last minute and everything in between. He’s not a nice person and certainly doesn’t give my friend anything like the respect or care that she gives him. Similarly, she thinks staying with him and accepting the crumbs is better than being alone.

I made the decision some time ago to not say anything anymore as it fell completely on deaf ears and if push came to shove I think he’d be the one still in her life.

That said she shares less about him these days. This might be as she knows my thoughts, but I also think I big chunk of it is that she accepts a lot of the shit behaviour as he’s convinced her (or her herself) that this is normal and gaslights her if she pulls him up on stuff she’s unhappy with. I don’t have the mental dumping as much as you which I know can be really draining.

it’s tricky for you. I get it. If she didn’t offload so much to you then you could just keep it all a bit more arm’s length and have a semi normal friendship.

In your shoes I would not bother engaging too much with the next outpouring or try to change her mind. I’d listen next time, hear her out , make a brief comment of the (yes that sounds hard, I understand why you are upset’ variety) and then try and move on to another subject.

Obviously you’ll be there if it all falls apart but you don’t need to give up hours of your valuable time being used as a sounding board when she’s not prepared to make any changes.
It’s incredibly frustrating seeing someone brilliant who you love making such shit choices but I would save your energy if you can and just be there when it all falls apart.

So you never see her in person but spend every day discussing her shit relationship? Sounds like a dreadful one sided 'friendship' and I'm not surprised you're pissed off with it all. Maybe take a step back? Don't engage with discussion about him? If she won't change anything, why should she get to endlessly moan about it to you?

Speaking multiple times a week for an hour, coupled with the gushing way you describe her does make it all sound quite intense OP. I think that is the point people are trying to make.

I actually wonder if you’d feel quite bereft and dejected if these draining, one-sided conversations ended. You seem to have become ensnared in your friends life to an unhealthy degree. I ask with kindness: do you spend time with other friends at all? Hobbies?

I think part of being a good friend is being willing and able to call them on their bullshit.

But not everybody appreciates that.

I wonder if she would just disappear if you weren't listening to her moaning everyday about that guy?
Wouldn't it be nice if there was an equal amount of time spent on your life and what you were doing when talking with her?